25 Meet Jasmine Part 2: Home Birth Story, Hospital Birth Story, Birth Center Birth Story, Being A Surrogate & Living With Leukemia

The final installment of Birth Story Podcast’s Meet Jasmine series has finally arrived. In this episode Jasmine walks Heidi through her third pregnancy and what it meant for her to be a surrogate for a family in need as well as her journey to discovering she had been living with Leukemia and what that meant for her uncertain future to suddenly be brightened due to finding her perfect donor through Be The Match. Grab your tissue box because this episode is a rollercoaster of emotion! Jasmine's favorite baby product is the book The First Forty Days: The Essential Art of Nourishing the New Mother

Looking for a Virtual Doula to create a custom birthing experience and guide you through your journey to parenthood in the United States? Contact Heidi at www.mydoulaheidi.com

For additional free birth education resources and to purchase Heidi’s book, Birth Story: Pregnancy Guidebook + Journal, visit www.birthstory.com.

Want to share your thoughts on the episode? Leave a review and send a message directly to Heidi on Instagram.

TRANSCRIPTION

Does a contraction feel like? How do I know if I'm in labor and what does a day of labor look like? Wait, is this normal? Hey, I'm Heidi Campbell, a certified birth doula host of this podcast, birth story and owner of my doula, Heidi. I have supported hundreds of women through their labor and deliveries.

And I believe that every one of them and you deserves a microphone and a stage. So here we are listen each week to get answers to these tough questions and more birth story, where we talk about pregnancy labor deliveries, where we tell our stories, share our feelings, and of course, chat about our favorite baby products and motherhood.

And because I'm passionate about birth outcomes, you will hear from some of the top experts in labor and delivery, whether you are pregnant, trying desperately to get pregnant. I hope you will stick around and be part of this tribe episode 25. Alright. If you did not listen to episode 24, this is a two part series.

So I need you to like, Push pause or stop. Go back to the podcast app and click on episodes. 24 episodes, 24 and 25 are all about meeting Jasmine. If you just listened to 24, then you know, you're getting ready to hear Jasmine surrogacy story. And then her postpartum period, where she was diagnosed with leukemia.

This particular episode is all about honoring surrogacy. What the process is like, like how joyous and how difficult it can be for the caring provider. And then what it's like to get a diagnosis that you were never expecting right after you had been completely selfless with your own body and now needing a donor of your own.

Thanks for listening to this episode. And I hope that you'll spread the word about it. Well, that is going to lead us Jasmine into birth. Number three for you. And I just, Oh, I have so many questions about surrogacy and being a surrogate, but I. Oh, I just don't even know where to start because I just, first of all, I just think you're a superhuman.

You sound like the complete opposite of the type of person, net person.

And so I really like, I, you know, it's a mixed bag. I love hearing people that just like basked in pregnancy. I was not one of those women. I was just not the glowing. Beautiful gentle pregnant person. I would definitely have never volunteered to be a surrogate because at the end of my bird, this, I was thinking, get a vasectomy as quickly as possible, but you were, you know, younger, your body healed beautifully.

You had a great pregnancy is in labor and delivery. And then you immerse herself into the birth world. Yeah. So walk me through, you have two beautiful daughters and you're married and what the journey looked like and how you became a surrogate. Like how did that happen? Yeah. Well, for me, I did have such great pregnancies and I loved being pregnant and I know that's not the norm, so I thought, you know, it just.

I enjoyed pregnancy. And I really enjoyed that second labor so much. I thought that was such a breeze. I felt so powerful. And, and so I really wanted to be pregnant again, but being honest with myself, I really didn't want to have any more of my own kids. And I started joking that I was going to be a surrogate.

You know, I had other friends who were sort of the opposite and they didn't want to be pregnant again, but they wanted more kids. And I would joke like, well, let me be your surrogate. I'll just start having babies for everyone. And the more I joked about it, the more it kind of started getting into my head that it might be a possibility.

And so I started looking into it and I started researching surrogate agencies. And that's actually how I got started. I, after like researching agencies for a little while I found one that I really, really clicked with and I talked to them on the phone and just kind of learned about the process and really liked them.

And I decided that I would go ahead and go through with. You know, just filling out an application and see what happens because you essentially fill out like a little form and it just sort of, kind of helps them connect you with a family. And I thought, well, let me just see, see what's out there. And so I filled out the form and right away, I mean, on paper, I probably looked pretty good, you know, like healthy babies, prenatal, yoga teacher, you know, all the things.

And I just, yeah, all of a sudden all these families were. Work getting in touch with me and I was still breastfeeding. And so I decided, okay, hold on, let me wait a minute. I want to not be breastfeeding. Cause I knew I would have to go through IVF and I didn't want to be on the medication while I was breastfeeding my baby.

So I waited until she was done breastfeeding and that she waned when she was around three. So waited a couple of years and sat on it and thought about it for all those years and kind of prepared myself for the idea of it. And then went back to that same agency. Said. Okay. I'm ready. And it didn't take too long before I was getting matched with families.

And then eventually just found a family that I clicked with. How many families did you kind of meet or get introduced to before you found like your perfect match? Hmm, there were many, some of them, it would only go as far as some phone calls. Um, sometimes you would Skype them. There was one family that I just adored and we actually drove out to the Bay area to go see them.

We stayed at their house, met their other child that they'd had through surrogacy. They were so wonderful. And then something fell through and I couldn't actually work with them. So that was kind of devastating at the time. I just, they wanted everything I wanted. They wanted like a water home birth and, you know, they were just like really lovely people.

Um, and then there were others that you just kind of know right away. It wasn't going to be a great match because you could really, um, there's so many families out there and really find people that you have similar desires, you know? So I was going to say that makes a lot of sense to me because, you know, you're emulating their pregnancy and many ways.

And so just the energy that you breathe. In in to, and through the baby throughout those months, you know, hopefully would feel familiar to the, you know, to the baby of the surrogate versus the birth mom. That makes sense to me. So how did you get matched kind of, what did that look like when you finally had it like yes.

Yes. On both sides. Yeah. Well, a lot of it was done through the agency, which was an interesting experience. It sometimes it felt a little, um, like a lot of paperwork and, and not as intimate as you would think, but I also really appreciated it because they understood the legal stuff that I didn't understand.

Okay. And so it kind of, you know, once you start to get deeper into it, you realize it's sort of a strange transaction. There's a lot of heart in it, but there's also a lot of legal. Stuff that needs to be dealt with. And so a lot of the, um, conversation happened through the agency and that team, and you kind of get assigned certain people that are on your team.

And I really grew to love them. I learned that, you know, if you're going to be a surrogate, loving your agency that you're working with is super important because those are your people, they advocate for you. They're kind of like your surrogate doulas, okay. Or for you. And they really understand the things that.

You know, why would I know the legalities of surrogacy, but yeah, so a lot of it happened through them and then I of course, would communicate with the family and, and it was just sort of, they were along the ride with me as I went through the IVF process and, and yeah, I was going to see, so how involved do they get to be like, do they, do they get to be there for the transplant or the ultrasounds?

It's really up to them. And it's also kind of up to you as the surrogate as well. So that's why it's important to match with somebody who has similar desires as you. Okay. And I actually had a family who lived in China and so they were really far away from everything and they had the different time zone.

Wait, so, so this baby number three, hold on. This baby. Number three. You're in California. And you're being a surrogate for a couple in China. Yes, I did not see that coming. First of all, I have a million questions about international surrogacy, so that's a thing then I didn't even know. Okay. So that's one thing, I guess it's, it's pretty popular actually.

I, I know of course I didn't know this either until I got into it, but I learned that it's pretty common to, um, yeah, pretty common for people to go to other countries and have this service. They, as far as I know, they don't do surrogacy in China. Okay. So they needed to seek, you know, that outside. Yeah. So, and I guess it's quite popular for them to go to Australia.

Um, and also the LA area of California is kind of a hot spot and that's where I was. So do you know their story at all? Like, did they have children, um, prior or were they never able to conceive? They, I do know their story and it's, um, It's a wonderful one, but I'll just be kind of delicate. Yes. Just that they were unable to conceive after many, many late term losses.

They endured so much, like so much more than I can't even imagine a family during. And they, all they wanted was children. I mean, they were the sweetest people and I think that's really what drew me to them was just like, I don't know if I've ever met a family who just wanted children so much. The whole family, everybody, you know, grandma was involved, aunts and uncles were involved.

It was whole family affair to bring, to bring this little baby the world. And something that I loved is that what we were able to do was this was actually biologically their child, which is not that common, but they were able to create an embryo with, you know, both her and him. And had a, had an embryo. So it was really cool that they didn't need a donor, you know, an egg or a sperm donor.

It was, it was a hundred percent of their baby. And I just, for some reason, really. I thought that was pretty neat. Oh, I think this is so beautiful then. And the fact like the more I hear you talk and I mean, I know everyone that's going to be listening to this podcast is just going to be like, who is this goddess of an angel?

You know, that would do this. I mean, you are incredible that you are, that you see their pain and then you provide an answer and life. I mean, Oh, I just want to hug you if I was anywhere in me or Oregon or wherever. Right. That's where you're living now. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so big virtual hugs. All right. Now tell us about the process when you are a surrogate.

You know, we kind of breezed through a little bit of it, but like what types of medications, how does the process begin? Like chemically with your body. It was, um, a lot of medication that I tend to lead towards more natural things. So that was actually pretty hard for me. I sort of underestimated how powerful some of those medications are and how wacky you feel when you're on them.

Um, but it was really similar to anyone else who's ever been through IVF. Uh, just you had to do, you know, the shots in the butt I had to take. Uh, different pills. I think a progesterone and I can't even remember, there were so many, it was handfuls of pills. And then I never was able to give myself the shot.

My husband would have to do this for me every day. I kept telling him, okay, tomorrow I'm going to do it. And then I would chicken out. Yeah. And it just, I think it also depends on the doctor. I remember them telling me different doctors will do it different ways. So we had a really good doctor in LA and they had me.

Sort of hopped up on all these meds, getting me really nice and fertile, um, kind of thickening the lining of my uterus and sort of tricking my body into thinking that it was pregnant. And so I felt very pregnant and I wasn't, I was sick in the morning and moody and I started to get a little bloated and I really did feel quite pregnant.

And then they would take the embryo, which had been, you know, it's already created and it was frozen. And they would take the frozen embryo and insert it into my uterine wall and hope that it sticks. And we had one where it didn't and if, and that was, that was really hard. I didn't expect it to be hard.

Cause I knew that that was definitely a possibility, but this particular family, they didn't have a lot of embryos. And so they were only injecting one at a time and I also didn't want to be pregnant with twins. So that was my choice to not inject me with more than one, you know, the first one didn't take and.

That was really sad. I kind of felt like I'd let them down. And of course they were so sweet. They were like, no, you know, this is just a part of it. And the second one did take, so a couple of months later it took and I was pregnant and then I had to stay on the medication for quite a while because everything's still a little Rocky and uncertain.

And, um, you know, they just had to kind of keep it going for a little bit. And after that first trimester was over, I was able to just have a normal pregnancy. Did you feel now? Every pregnancy is different. Did you feel different like with morning sickness or nausea you knew with their embryo compared to your daughters?

Yeah, a hundred percent. And I don't know if it was the medication or just a different. I don't know, but I did. He did. I will. I was going to ask, is it, are you allowed to tell me, is it a boy or a girl? I was like, sometimes that me and another girl. Okay. So girl and, and I was sick as a dog. I was so tired. I kept wondering too.

I was, like I said, because I'm older now. Is it like, what is this? I was. Oh, my gosh, I couldn't do food. Like if somebody was cooking in the house I had to leave. It's just, it was really terrible. And I had been a little bit sick with my, with my girls, but this was next level. And thankfully after that, I thought it was going to last, the whole pregnancy.

I was totally miserable. I'm like, what did I do? I did this to myself. Um, But after that first trimester, I was much better and sailed through the rest of the pregnancy. Same as I did with my other two. I even taught my yoga classes all the way up until giving birth credible. I would like to give you a high five for that.

I did zero working out during my pregnancies. So that is great. Was my workout was just teaching I'm like, that is amazing. Okay. I want to rewind though, because we've gone so fast and I'm like, wait, wait. I've got so many questions once they do the transfer. And if this is considered an IVF surrogate transfer, how many days until you find out you're pregnant?

Well, some surrogates will start testing right away. They'll they'll go buy the test. I didn't want to do that. I wanted to wait because I thought it'd be too disappointing if it didn't. So I think they called me trying to it's very soon. I'm trying to remember if it was a week or two weeks. Later, but you go in for a blood test.

Okay. And then no is already about a week old. Okay. W at implantation? Yeah. Okay. So did you, did you know, like where you like, um, or were the medicines making you confused about that feeling? I was very confused because the first time when it didn't take, I thought for sure that I was because I felt so pregnant.

So the second time I kind of didn't really trust it. I thought, well, I feel pregnant. But we'll see. Okay. And if the embryo is already sorry that I don't know the answer to any of these questions, but this is fascinating to me. So if the embryo is already like a week old and then, so how do they establish your due date?

Like do they do 266 days minus seven. Okay. That was confusing to me too. Um, Still, I don't really know. I, I just, I kind of went along with the things that I was just sure. You know, whatever, the things that they were telling me, I thought it was pretty miraculous and crazy that we were even able, like the science of it all was just really crazy when you're immersed in it and having it all happen to you.

So, yeah, I just, I just kind of went with it. Whatever, whatever the due date was, I'll research that and put that in the show notes, because I'm just so curious about it. Okay. So you find out you're pregnant and then is it, did this particular family, did they fly? I mean, I'm assuming you didn't fly to China.

Yeah, no. They came to California. To visit. And did they do that just a few times or did they come here to, to did they come and live for a while, California? They came a few times during the pregnancy and then, um, they came toward closer to my due date to stay for a little while. And it does take some time to get together the baby's birth certificate.

There's a lot of stuff that they had to deal with with social security cards and all that. Um, because it's, it's a Chinese citizen. Born in America. So I'm sure that that's a legal nightmare for them dealing with that. So they do spend some time here and they had a little house rented where they stayed for a couple of months before they went back to China altogether.

So Jasmine, I, um, I'm really curious about. The financial aspect of this, I cannot even imagine the investment of the family that you are the surrogate for. Maybe, you know, I was wondering if you knew on either side, like what a typical surrogate gets paid to be a surrogate. I'm assuming there's financial compensation for taking over your body for nine to 10.

Yeah. There is. And then if there's an agency involved, so I'm assuming and all these legal things. So I was curious if you knew just kind of roughly what this might cost the family and then roughly what one may get paid, who is a surrogate? Yeah. Well, I do know that it changes from agency to agency, different agencies charge different amounts, and it also changes depending on the pregnancy.

So if it's your first one or your second one, if you're carrying twins, Or even triplets, um, it all changes the compensation amount and I don't know how much the family paid. I'm sure that it was an investment. Um, they paid for my insurance, they covered, you know, all kinds of things for me. They even were kind enough to buy me maternity clothes.

So it was, it was really nice and they kind of spoiled me. Um, and they also, I got paid. $30,000 for the whole pregnancy. And it was broken up into payments per month, but throughout the 10 months, it was kind of like, I was getting paid monthly as if it were my job and I treated it as my job, you know, and took it really seriously that, yeah.

And that's, and that's in California. I think it also changes state to state as well. If the pregnancy would have terminated, because as an example, would you have been paid the full amount or would you still have just been paid up until the month that you were pregnant? I believe it's just up until the month you're pregnant.

And I'm trying to remember you actually, before you even go through IVF and start medication at you spend a couple months just drawing up contracts and. Deciding all of these things. Okay. And there's just sort of a standard contract and then you go back and forth saying, yes, I'll do this. No, I won't do that.

And you're allowed to, you know, as the surrogate kind of, you have your saying and some of the things too, and like you have certain rights that you're allowed to stand up for yourself in some ways. And then of course the family has their desires, but yeah. So you kind of get to decide and, and you get to name your price too.

And I know some people, yeah. Got paid less to be a surrogate. Some people even ask for more. Yeah. I'm glad that you said that because I'll be honest. I'm not going to let them, so I'm sorry, but as you were talking and I had a number in my head that I was guessing, I was like, Oh, okay. If I was going to be a surrogate, I would, I think it would be like around, I would be paid around 60 to $75,000.

And so I was way, way off in that department way. Well, you know, Funny because people assumed that I got paid like a lot, you know, and I'm really shocked at how, and again, you're not doing this to make money. I can hear that from you. You are doing this because this is something that you feel that you were called to do, and that you really wanted to support this in all the things I'm getting from.

You had nothing to do with anything financial, but it's interesting that you're saying that, you know, different, you could S you could say, Oh, I want it. I'm more money than, than this, if you wanted to. Yeah. When I'm sure there were moments throughout the pregnancy where I wished I'd asked for more money, you know, and like a really difficult day and, and, you know, because it is, you know, I think that you deserve to be compensated when you do something like that, because it is it's, um, it takes, puts a little bit of pressure on your family.

Um, it takes time it's, you know, it's a 24 seven job. I want to hear all about the birth. So the family came, you said they came at the very end and you were due. And so did you experience that premature rupture of the membranes again? Or how did your labor unfold? I did not end with this last labor. You know, I had pretty quick labors with my first two.

And this last one I really got to see. Oh, how fast the labor can be. Um, I, I had no signs of labor at all the day that I went into labor and, but I had a feeling, it was that mom intuition. I kind of woke up that morning and I just kind of knew there were no twinges. There were no contractions, but I told my husband, I bet you, this baby's coming today.

And we should stock the pantry with snacks for the kids and just be ready. And we were supposed to go to a hospital because the family wanted me to be in a hospital. This was their first baby. And the hospital was just down the street. It was probably five minutes away. And my husband was like, you have a feeling great.

Let's go to the hospital right now. And I was like, you were so dramatic. Of course, we're not going to go to the hospital right now. Like there are, they will throw signs. They will admit you when you're not in labor. I know that's what I, I told him. I said no. And he was like, no, you have baby so fast. We should go.

And like, No, no, you're crazy. And so we go throughout our day, still no signs of labor at all. And I went to eat dinner that night and I sat down on my birth ball. It was kind of pushed up against the table. I sat down and all of a sudden, just this huge surge through my belly. And I almost had to kind of stand up and catch my breath.

And I just thought like, Whoa, like that, that came out of nowhere. And I said, Hey, I think I just had a pretty intense contraction. And then I had to go to the bathroom, which is. That's it just, I got it from the birth ball and I said, Hey, I'm going to go pee real quick. And then all of a sudden I'm in the bathroom and it's like contraction, contraction, contraction.

And I'm like lifting up off the toilet. And I, I called my husband and I said, Hey, don't panic. But, uh, I'm definitely in labor. So I call my grandma to come watch the kids and he's like, okay. And he goes to call my grandma, but then all of a sudden I had another really big contraction and add some bloody show and I.

I told him, I don't think we're going to have time to go to the hospital, just get my grandma here to watch the kids. And then I kind of, for some reason, just this weird instinct took over and I ran from my clean bathroom to my kids, dirty bathroom. I don't know why, because that's where I ended up having the baby was on the bathroom floor.

I ended up

like minutes later, like you were in labor for minutes. Minutes. And we actually, I looked at my phone, so I, in between one of the contractions, I texted the parents. Yeah. And I said, Hey, it's time meet me at the hospital. And when the baby was born, I was like, I have to look at my phone and see what, like how long ago I sent that message and it had been nine minutes.

Nine minutes. So did your grandma even make it to the house? Nobody made it anywhere. Like you made it from the birth ball to one bathroom to the next bathroom and delivered a baby. It was, it was so intense. It was so funny. I mean, even looking I'm just like, how was that even possible? But, um, yeah, I. Was, you know, sitting on the toilet one minute and then I just started sort of howling.

I knew I could just feel it. I made a noise and I thought, Oh yeah. And then my leg kind of started to shake and I was like, Oh yeah, yeah. They're the labor shakes. Yeah. As soon as I saw my leg shake, I called my husband and I said, we're not going to make it. You need to call nine one one. And, um, and he was so sweet and he just, he walks in the room and he looks at me.

He goes, I knew it. And he just. Gave me this look like, Oh man, girl, I would be like, take that, that look right off your face, throw it in the trash can and I don't want to ever see it again. And then after that, he was so sweet. He called nine one one, and just the calmest sweetest voice in the other room. I heard him say, so my wife is in labor.

What do I do? And, um, We ended up just sort of communicating almost like telepathically. Like I was in the bathroom. I couldn't talk anymore at this point, cause it's coming on so quickly. And I just sort of looked at him and I looked at this waterproof mattress cover that I had just taken off my daughter's bed.

So I was like, she doesn't need this anymore. I had it folded up in the corner and he saw that and he unfolded it and I got down on all fours and he got behind me and caught the baby. Oh, how beautiful. And so did the family know that? Yeah, it was a girl. They did. Yeah, they did. Okay. Yeah. So we were expecting a baby girl and, and she was.

So cute. It's so, so cute. It was so funny to give birth to a Chinese baby, you know, I'm, I'm not Chinese it's so it was just like, it was so clearly their baby and she was so quiet and so wonderful and so sweet. And my husband held her and then the firefighters came in a few minutes later and they transported me to the hospital.

Okay. More questions I'm like, Oh, that, um, when did your water break? I don't know. I, I tried to remember that and I don't remember a moment of water breaking, so I don't know if maybe it happened when I was on the toilet. Maybe. I don't think it happened while I was pushing, though. Okay. So at some point it low fluid too.

So there couldn't just not have been that much amniotic fluid at the end. Oh my goodness. Okay. So then you're like on all fours, was that, um, your birthing position for your second birth on all fours? No, it wasn't both my first daughter and my second daughter, I laid on my side and that's where I was the most comfortable.

Okay. And, um, I just got on all fours, just sort of out of instinct. It just felt like the right thing to do God. He is leading guide us, I believe based on the positioning of the baby. Right. I mean, if that the shoulder, the head is turned, I think our bodies just tell us exactly how to move and where to go.

I've been in labor so many times where the moms have just said, no, I ha I have to move. I have to go over here. I have to do this. You know, that the body is just being led. So your husband catches this beautiful baby girl. And I'm assuming he's behind you. Here's what I, yeah. Okay. So then is there like a.

Pass the baby through your legs, to the front of you so that you can hold the baby. Like, how does this happen? I'm assuming he doesn't cut the umbilical cord. Yeah, it was sort of a weird moment because, um, it was just me sort of realizing why I just had this baby and it wasn't my baby. So my first instinct would have been to grab the baby and start breastfeeding her.

Um, but I didn't want to overstep any boundaries because we hadn't really discussed that with the family. If that's something they were comfortable with. So right. As I was awkwardly, trying to figure out how to turn myself around so that I can be with my husband and the baby. That's when the firefighters came in.

So they actually took over and they cut the cord and they kept me on all fours for a little while. And then they put me in one of those, I'm not like a stretcher, but it was kind of like a stretcher that was like a blanket. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. And then actually one of the firefighters sort of took over and held the baby and I didn't hold her until we got into the ambulance.

And then I held her and she just was quiet. She didn't make a peep the whole time. She was so alert. I was looking around being all sweet. And then when we got to the hospital, um, her parents were there and they were so surprised. This was already there because of course they were expecting to come to the hospital and for her to be born there.

And I, you know, I felt kind of bad. I was like, I'm sorry that it just happened so fast, but yeah. Here's your baby. So did you ever nurse? I never did. Never did. No. Okay. Yeah. It was something that I don't think they were very comfortable with and I offered to pump breast milk to give to the baby and. I could tell she wanted to get a hang of the bottles.

And I said, you know what, that's fine. You're the mom. And you decide, so yeah. Yeah. Maybe some cultural differences there too, you know? Um, yeah. And that was something, I didn't know a lot about their culture, how they do, you know, how they do postpartum. So I want it to be really respectful. Oh, I love it. So you get, where, where was the placenta by the way?

Did you deliver the placenta at home or in the ambulance? I actually delivered the placenta in the hospital. It took a while to come out. They had to give me some Pitocin and get it out. Okay. Yeah. So it wasn't retained or anything. It just took a long time. This was taken awhile, like long enough where they were starting to get a little bit uncomfortable and especially cause we came in with this like accidental home birth, they were kind of , you know?

Right. Like as if you had control of it, I know, like I did it on purpose or something. Okay. So you're and for anyone listening, it can take up to an hour or more for the placenta to release, but it usually releases within five to 30 minutes. Um, so it sounds like this took a little bit longer. So Jasmine, you get to the hospital and you you're disconnected.

The cord is cut the baby's there's. When we are having a physiological birth, I will kind of dive in or lean. And right now to the famous dr. Sarah Buckley, who has studied the physiology of birth. So right after the birth, you're having these surges, um, of oxytocin and beta endorphins, and the baby is not.

With you. Yeah. Did that. I just was hoping you might take a minute and walk us through what it's like to carry a baby that you know, is not yours, that you're giving as a gift to a family that it belongs to them. And, but not having any of that immediate bonding skin to skin time, it sounds like you just held the baby for a very short period of time.

Yeah. So tell me how that was for you. That was an interesting experience for me because I had mentally prepared for it. And I even knew I might be a little sad. Um, but I was unprepared for how it would feel on sort of, um, a deep kind of inner instinctual level. It was sad for me. It was a little bit hard for me.

I had bought a, a, a belly bind and I wrapped up my belly in the hospital. So that was I, or covering I'd sort of feel kind of held. And I'm really, really glad that I did that. Um, there was, of course there was just kind of, the birth was so wild and crazy. It was, I was kind of on a high and kind of excited and happy that I did it.

And it was so amazing, but yeah. It was also then, you know, my body is totally empty and I felt a little bit lonely. My husband had to go home and be with our two girls, which I had planned and agreed to, but it was a little sad and I wish that I had really let myself feel those feelings initially because it took a little while for me to really admit that because going into it, I knew it wasn't going to be my baby.

So I thought, well, how can I feel sad if I. Did this on purpose. Um, and I would say, yeah, I mean, I would just chime in right there on when you study the science and the physiology of birth, you know, these are natural hormones and instincts that are created because we're mammals so that we will protect our young, you know, whether they're with us or not.

All of those hormones that are pushing you towards. Connecting and bonding and protecting your young, all physiologically. Those are all still there for you. So tell me about the placenta. Were you able to encapsulate the placenta for yourself? Yes, I was. And I was really excited to do that. I brought it home.

I did some prints so that I would have those and it felt like it felt like I was able to take something home for myself and sort of nourish myself in another way. And, uh, I didn't really plan well for my postpartum, with my second daughter. And so this time I knew that I was going to just pour so much love into this postpartum period.

And I was going to mother myself as if I were the newborn. And I kind of did that. That is so beautifully said, Oh, so, Oh my goodness. This is where I have a couple of questions on. Nursing, because I'm assuming you had a decision, right? Like likely your milk was going to come in. Yes. And so you could, and you were finished, you had weaned your children.

So maybe you could be a milk donor or you could do things too. I'm assuming if you're a surrogate you could choose to then be a milk donor or give the milk to the biological family. So in this case, the biological family said, no, thank you. So now your choices are, stop the milk from coming in or pump the milk as an donation for another family.

Wow. How did you feel about that? Initially I had planned to pump and donate. I thought, you know, the milk was going to come in anyway, I'm a huge fan of breastfeeding. And I thought it would be a really sweet thing to do. And after the baby was born, I honestly had this feeling of, I had just given up so much for so long.

And I had given my body to other places for so long that when it came down to it and I looked at that pump, I couldn't bring myself to do it. I just couldn't give any more. And that was a personal thing I did for myself. And I think that just goes right back to what you just said about mothering yourself and taking care of yourself.

So I am very proud of you for acknowledging that and for making that decision for your body. So did you have to take it any special measures to prevent your milk besides not pumping, but to like suppress the milk from coming in and to get it to dry up quickly? Um, I tried. Taking herbs, just like as a tea, but my milk came in really quickly and a lot, it was incredibly painful, full actually.

Um, I became very quickly and gorged with milk. Um, kind of like surprisingly fast. It was just a couple of days after the baby was born. I was already just so full by breasts hurt so badly. And yeah, I just continued to drink herbs and teas and just sort of wait for it to kind of go away. And it did eventually sometimes for a little bit of relief, I would just kind of get some milk out in the shower, but I would try so hard not to too much, cause I didn't want to stimulate more milk coming in.

Did you do anything like when I had a lot of milk on my second and I just remember being. I was, I love that you nursed until three and I could just hold all the moms that nurse threw out. But from my second, I was touched out at about a year old. Yeah. It's so much milk. I mean, he was nowhere near weaning and my milk was not going anywhere.

And so I, I bought cabbage leaves. I mean, like my husband would have to go and buy all the cabbage in the grocery store because you would put it over your breasts and then they would wilt the cabbage so quickly and become more. And then, yeah, I did do a little bit of that. Okay. Yeah. Yes on the really hard days.

And then I know peppermint oil, um, or eucalyptus is another thing that can help dry up your milk. Um, some women will take Sudafed, um, you know, education that dries secretions is pretty effective. I'm just trying to think of right now, if anyone's listening and they're. Either done nursing or they're not interested in nursing for whatever reason.

I know there are many women, especially victims of sexual assault that have a very difficult time crossing the bridge to nursing. And we have to honor that and help them. You know, I believe that we need to honor that and help them so that they don't have to do something for their body that they're not interested in doing, or that doesn't feel safe for them.

The tea that I drink, I can try to remember what it was called. I didn't do a lot of research cause I think. I thought that I was going to pump, so I didn't have a lot on hand for that, but the tea had a very, like, just obvious name. It was something like no more milk tea. So I think that it worked pretty well.

And as quickly as your milk came in within a couple of days, how long would you say it took before you felt like you were dry? Probably about a week. Okay. Oh, that's much faster than I would have expected. Now tell me about the postpartum process because your body goes through all of the same things. So over those couple of months, Were you able to get sleep and rest, or was your body waking you up?

Like kind of walk me through what postpartum looks like, sign up to send down, just nurtured myself. I cooked myself meals from the book the first 40 days, and I loved that cookbook. It's so beautiful. And, um, I gave it to my husband and he actually cooked a lot of meals for me from the cookbook and. And I just, I got all my favorite books to read and I got books from the library and I started little crafting projects and I drank lots of teas and ate lot of nourishing foods.

And I slept so well. I did the bank on belly binding on myself, and I would give myself a massage, like a full warm oil massage, get into the bath and then get out and put the belly bind on. And then go to sleep. No. Where were your daughters? Was your husband just really doing a good job taking care of your older daughters?

Yeah, he is very good at that. He's very, very good at that. Um, so you had protected space, that was just for you? Yeah. Yeah. And we, we actually homeschool our kids too. So he took on. The homeschooling and he enjoyed it. You know, it sounds like it was a lot for him, but at the time he was working a lot and he really enjoyed being able to take care of me and he enjoyed the one on one time with the girls.

So it was really, really sweet because he had sort of been missing out on some of that. So he had, you know, homeschooling lessons planned and did all kinds of fun things with them. And. So it was really kind of nice for all of us in your planning. How long was your postpartum care plan for? Uh, I had planned for about two months.

Okay. But I only had those three weeks with my husband, so I really, really plan those three weeks. Like I knew those would be the real juicy, good days. And then I, you know, took time off from teaching. Cause I had taught my yoga classes all the way up to the point and I was even taking birth clients.

Pretty much into my ninth month of pregnancy. And so I took time I'm off and, uh, yeah, I tried to give myself some space. Okay. For sure. And I told myself, even if I feel good, I'm still gonna rest. Cause I kind of learned my lesson after my second daughter's birth. Everyone I hope is listening and learning right now.

Just listen about Jasmine, the number one self care mom in the country. This is amazing. We're kind of getting a little close to our, the end of our time together. And it makes me sad because I've enjoyed every, just minute of talking to you. But a few months after this journey, you became ill. And I don't want to conclude our podcast without you sharing.

Just a little bit of that story about, you know, you've been so selfless and giving with your body and you've given yourself all this good self care. And then what happened? Yeah, it, it was pretty rough because that's how I felt. I was like, wait, I've done so many good things. Why is this happening? But the same family that I had just had a baby for, they wanted their dream family was to have two children.

They wanted to have two baby girls just like I had. And, um, they asked me if I would be a surrogate for them again. And I wanted to wait a little while to recover. But they were really excited. They wanted to have them very close in age. And so I said, okay, we'll give me at least six months to recover, but because there's so much paperwork and things involved, we started getting ready for another surrogate journey around four months postpartum.

And I went in for the routine blood work to make sure I was nice and healthy, which I had just been nice and healthy during my pregnancies. And, um, they, my numbers kept coming back really funny. And this was kind of right around the holidays at the end of 2017 and my white blood cell count, which is really weird.

And I felt fine. I felt tired, but I had just had a baby. So I figured, well, I'm a mom of two kids and I run a business. And so of course I'm tired. And so I went in for more blood work. They said maybe it was a mistake. Go ahead and go back in and get retested. I got retested. Nope. Still coming back. Funny.

And so then they started sending me to blood specialists and they started monitoring my blood work. They still don't know what's going on. I'm still feeling pretty much fine. And at this point I'm just sort of getting frustrated. Cause I'm thinking like, well, if I'm going to be a surrogate one more time, I kind of want to get on it.

Like I don't want to be waiting for forever. Never. I wasn't even sure if I was feeling totally committed. Cause like I said, like I felt like I had already given so much. So I looking back, I wonder if maybe I was really kind of stretching myself too thin at this point. In my life. Um, just being a little bit too selfless, a little bit too giving.

Yeah. And finally somebody said like at first they were telling me, no, you're completely fine. You can go, you can move on with your life. Like, we don't know what's wrong with you, but it's probably just some sort of weird, you know, saying that that doesn't mean anything. And the IVF after I said, no, I'm not going to work with you until somebody does a biopsy.

So it was actually him and the surrogate pregnancy that probably saved my life because I would have never gone to a doctor. Otherwise I just didn't have a reason to, and they did a bone marrow biopsy and called me the day after Easter and the doctor, you know, I picked up the phone and she said, Jasmine, are your kids around?

And I said, yeah, she said, I want you to go into the other room. And I just thought, I just want to hang up the phone now. I don't want to know what you have to say. And so I went to the other room and she said, are you sitting down? Let me say that the ass. And she said, okay, you have something called acute myeloid leukemia.

It's a really fast acting leukemia. I want you to pack your bag. You're going into the hospital today. And that's what we did. I kind of was in shock. And I told my husband, take the kids to my mom's house. I'm really sick. We have to go to the hospital and. By some sort of blessing. It actually ended up that I didn't go to the hospital that day.

And I was able to reevaluate the hospital. They were sending me to, and I started to advocate for myself. I was able to get care at a different much better hospital. Later that week I got admitted and they started chemotherapy right away. I was admitted. I, I started chemotherapy and went through three rounds of chemotherapy and a bone marrow transplant all throughout 2018.

This is where I'm going to interject. Um, it's really hard for me as a birth story podcast because, because I don't know what to say.

Someone tells you that they have given their body and then four months postpartum, they get diagnosed with cancer. I'm just a little bit mad for you. Oh, I'm also in just a little bit of shock and I'm also feeling a little bit of angry things. But what I think I'm hearing from you though, is that you had a donor also, if you had a bone marrow transplant.

So that means they quickly found a match for you. It was very fast. In fact, everything was so. Beautifully aligned. It was such a scary diagnosis in a such a scary time, but the timing of it was incredible that I was able to go from this very scary diagnosis to then having some of the best doctors in the world are on my team still.

And then getting this bone marrow transplant done so quickly and I've healed incredibly well. It's. It's really just been kind of divine, how it sort of unfolded and worked out. And it, it happened that somebody that I was very close to in my life before children, her mom had had AML the same type of leukemia that I had and had gone through treatment at this, uh, very, very good hospital in California.

And I was able to get in touch with her after not speaking to her for years and years, she kind of became my. My person, my touchstone, and sort of guided me through the process and, um, and it just, yeah, they kept telling me, you know, we don't know how long it'll take until we have a donor for you. And then, Oh, okay.

We found a donor for you and it's a hundred percent match and you're young and healthy and you're going to do great. And, and it, yeah. And you know, I, I'm in contact with my donor doctor to this day. And my one year anniversary of my new STEM cells. So it's kind of coming up. So you're what does, what does a donor doctor mean?

Oh, he was the one that did my transplant. Oh, he did the transplant. I thought maybe your donor was a doctor. No, I actually don't get to meet my donor until I've been until it's been one year. So I'll be meeting them next year. All I know is that they're from Germany. Okay. My mind blown even more on the international, like I'm, I'm in a box for some reason tonight in this interview, I'm in a box.

I don't know why it is a small world. I, for some, so this, the registry is clearly, um, international, uh, registry. So. Oh, I shouldn't say this out loud on, but I'm going to, um, so one of my friends from middle school passed away a few months ago and it was not able to find a, um, a match. Uh, waited and waited and waited and waited and waited, um, in the hospital.

Um, and wasn't able to find a match. So I'm going to put you on the spot here, but, um, as we conclude our podcast and just kind of hold space for what you did, what you, um, have overcomed overcome those listening, what you have overcome. What could, if someone's listening today, you know, they've tuned in to hear about the birth story, but guest and instead, or year going to get a whole bunch of, um, donors out there.

So what could someone do to get themselves into the registry to make sure that they are opening themselves up? If they want to, to be a donor for someone with leukemia. Yeah, it's really, really easy to do, be the match online. You can just Google it, be the match. And, um, I think it's a really simple little blood test that you enter in and it's a sample and then you're in the registry and it sounds really scary and dramatic, you know, a bone marrow transplant, but it's actually really similar to giving blood.

Um, it's a really easy, simple thing to do, and it really, really does save lives. And a big problem that we have is that it. The STEM cells need to line up with your ethnicity. And there's not enough diversity in the registry. So people who have, um, really specific ethnicities, they're kind of getting left out and they're not finding matches.

And that's why you hear about this. And. Yeah, it's, it's simple to do. I think every single person, it should just be required. It actually, a lot of donors do come from Germany and from other countries because to them it's just very common and normal to be in the registry. But we don't do that here as much.

Well, let's be the change. Jasmine let's let us be the, the donor doula also in this story, in this conversation. So be the match. If you are listening and you are feeling touched and moved by Jasmine's story of births and her surrogacy and her giving and her fight against leukemia. Getting a donor that was a hundred percent match and all of this beauty, then please go to be the match and register to see if you could save someone's life very easily.

As Jasmine said, by just giving that's just like giving blood. Well, Jasmine, thank you so much for being on today. I, I feel like my life. Literally just changed. And my sister in law is a survivor of leukemia, childhood leukemia, and I've been a volunteer, you know, volunteered to be a match since I met my sister in law.

And so it's just about awareness. And so thank you so much for, for that today. And I also wanted to tell you, before we sign off, I'm going to give a shout out to one of my favorite podcasts is called. Terrible. Thanks for asking. And it's the host is right. Nora McInerney. She's. I'm one of those people that just balances the irony of pain, suffering, joy laughter life, and that you can live in the space of having both of those things at the same time and the same, the stories on our show.

I feel like you'd be perfect for, um, so we went through your birth stories, but I think Nora could take over on terrible. Thanks for asking and get you to really unfold the full story of having AML. So I'm just going to plant that little seed out there for you to go stock Nora on Instagram, Jasmine, if anyone is interested in following you on Instagram and your, your journey and your story, what is your handle?

Jasmine Rose doula. And there's an underscore between each of those words. So Jasmine underscore Rose. Underscore doula. I have enjoyed learning so much from you on your Instagram. So maybe there's a few others that want to, um, follow your journey. And again, we'll post about, be the match on the show notes.

I hope you have a wonderful day and I hope it did meet you in person. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you, Jasmine.

Thank you for listening to birth story, Michael is you'll walk away from each episode with a clear picture of how labor and delivery might go in that you will feel empowered by the end of your pregnancy to speak up plan and prepare for the birth you want. No matter what that looks like.