3 Meet Tory Jones CEO of Ixchel Triangle Sharing Her Hospital & 3 Midwife Home Births

Tory Jones is a remarkable woman. Not only is she the CEO of Ixchel Triangle, a bag company she developed while working in Guatemala, she is also an incredible advocate for the normalization of breastfeeding and home birthing. Tory's favorite baby products are the baby hammock and the ring sling.

Looking for a Virtual Doula to create a custom birthing experience and guide you through your journey to parenthood in the United States? Contact Heidi at www.mydoulaheidi.com

For additional free birth education resources and to purchase Heidi’s book, Birth Story: Pregnancy Guidebook + Journal, visit www.birthstory.com.

Want to share your thoughts on the episode? Leave a review and send a message directly to Heidi on Instagram.

TRANSCRIPTION

What does a contraction feel like? How do I know if I'm in labor and what does the day of labor look like? Wait, is this normal? Hey, I'm Heidi Campbell, a certified birth doula host of this podcast, birth story and owner of my doula, Heidi. I have supported hundreds of women through their labor and deliveries.

And I believe that every one of them and you deserves a microphone and a state. So here we are listen each week to get answers to these tough questions and more birth story, where we talk about pregnancy labor deliveries, where we tell our stories, share our feelings. And of course chat about our favorite baby products.

And because I'm passionate about birth, the outcomes you will hear from some of the top experts in labor and delivery, whether you are pregnant, trying desperately to get pregnant, I hope you will stick around and be part of this tribe. Ma. Okay. So today's episode as a little bit of gobbly goop echo from the Skype, but the episode content is kick ass.

Hey everybody. This is Heidi Campbell. And today I have Tory Jones who is going to talk about her four home births. So I just don't want you to, um, can we start off and just tell anybody who's listening, just who, who you are and kind of what your story is. Okay. Hey. Yeah. I'm Tory Jones. I'm from Redlands, California.

I'm the mother of four daughters and I own a ethically minded. The accessory and bad company called ECL triangle, where I work with indigenous women in Guatemala. And so I was listening to the rise podcast on January 1st for some inspiration and some uplifting on starting a business and a podcast. And Tori was the guest.

And at the very end she was describing like why her company. Was named Esau triangle. So Tori, do you mind telling us that story? Cause I think it's just so cool. Yes, for sure. Yeah. East shell is the Mayan goddess of fertility and midwifery. And when I was starting the company, I was trying to think of, you know, like what name should I use?

And I had always just, I had loved, you know, the SCOTUS and the name and I was like, that's. For sure it has to be the name of my company, even if it's hard to pronounce or people don't know it is, it just was so connected to, um, who I was as a person, because I have four daughters and whom I saw a midwife through all of their births actually ended up having my first daughter in the hospital due to, um, Insurance reasons.

And then my other three, I did have at home with my midwife and I was actually, um, with one of the same midwives. So it was just, um, it was. It was very much connected to who I was as a person. So I knew that was the name I had to go with. So I have so many questions about just starting out right there. So were you going to plan a home birth then for your very first one and then ended up in a hospital because of insurance?

Like, did you want to start with start first baby with home birth? No, I had never really. Because I was born at home. I'm one of five siblings and we were all born at home with midwives. And this was during the eighties when, um, having a child at home with a midwife in California was actually illegal. So it wasn't even legal to do that.

And my mom had us at home anyways, and kind of funny story. I, I didn't even get a birth certificate till I was seven years old because of that reason. And. Oh, which made it really hard to get a passport. Cause then they always think like I'm, I don't know, not who I say I am, but anyway, so, so I was home birth is.

And birth with a midwife is very natural to me and my family. So it wasn't something that I thought like, Oh, I needed to have my first baby in the hospital. You know, I saw a midwife for birthing classes and then it just ended up that our insurance wouldn't cover it to have her at home. And that, that yeah.

Point we could not afford to have. Have a home birth without insurance covering it. So I ended up having my oldest in the hospital and, um, yeah, because I was young, I got pregnant my first daughter when I was a senior in high school and I had her my first. Um, my first semester of college, so I was, didn't have a lot of money.

Oh my goodness. Your story is just like my mom's my mom, same thing. She said that she remembers like taking my brother, took college league with him, like strapped to her back and, um, that he would just be quiet, like while she went to classes. So, um, that's so neat. I took five days off of school. And then I went back and my T my professors were awesome.

I went to the university of Redlands and they were so supportive of me. I, um, yeah, I'm pretty sure I was the only woman there with a child. And, um, They were awesome. Like they helped me work my schedule around, like when I needed any childcare or they would let me bring her to lectures and, or study groups or any outings that we had.

And, you know, I, I joke that when I graduated college, my, my three and a half year old got her degree too. I love it. Girl power. I'm so glad that you finished though, because that is. And incur. It's just so hard to be a new mom. So I can't even imagine being like a brand new mom and trying to navigate, you know, college.

So I don't know much of your background, but were you, um, were you a single mom or were you married? I was, we were not married, but we ended up getting married later after I graduated college. Um, but we weren't, we were together, but we were not married then. And, um, yeah, I had. So I graduated high school, like five and a half months pregnant or so, and then I, I had already gotten into university and I remember some people being like telling me, you know, you should take time off or, you know, don't go to school, go to school and your kids are older.

And I think the best piece of advice my mom ever gave me ever in my life was she, she said to me, you know, no go because if, if you don't go now, you'll. You'll you'll always regret it. Um, and so I'm like, okay. So I went to school, big pregnant. Um, I had her, I went to school like the day before I had gave birth.

I went back five days later and I just kept going, Oh my goodness. Okay. So stop there. So you went at school like the day before you gave birth, right? So were you, um, so tell me about that first birth. Like, were you having any contractions like that day, like the day before, or like kind of how did it unfold?

Well, so that's what it was a little for me looking back, the regrets that I have about that birth was that I didn't have enough knowledge. I didn't, I didn't prepare myself enough. I trusted the doctor too much in my opinion. And I was do on October 25th, 2004, and I had a doctor's appointment on the 20th.

And I went in and my doctor, um, Said, okay. Lean back. And I leaned back and she said, okay, I'm going to do something that it might hurt a little bit. And she stripped my membranes without telling me what she was going to do without letting me know what you know would happen after she did that. And it, and I remember feeling like it hurts so bad and I started to cry and she just looked at me and said, okay, well, you're probably gonna go into labor tonight or tomorrow.

And I was like, what? And this was. I wasn't even due for five days. And she said, well, you know, because next week by your appointment, you'd be past your due date right now is where I should probably tell you don't mention any names. Yeah. I was like, but. This happens all the time. So this is like your oldest, but this is still happening.

It's happening in, in North Carolina, where I live, where I have to, you have to coach everyone to, if there's no reason, really to get an internal exam at the end. I mean, if you're not, if you're not in labor, I mean, there's really, there's no reason for it. And I have to tell everybody be very careful, like if you're going to let.

If you're a numbers person and you just want to know how dilated you cervix says like, well, please tell them to be gentle and to not sweep your membranes. Cause it is something that is done all the time without the permission. So I'm sorry that that happened. You, um, did, do you remember back to that first birth though?

A lot of people will like, um, I have some like cramping and some light spotting. Um, You said that the procedure itself was uncomfortable and you didn't expect it, but what happened afterwards? It was. And I remember like walking out, you know, we left the appointment and then I, I just started crying in the parking lot.

Cause I was upset about what had happened, especially without my permission and. And then throughout the day I felt fine. And then later in the evening, I, I never, you know, I was like waiting to lose my mucus plug, um, and or for my water to break or anything like that. And with all of my births, my water never broke before I was pushing me.

Wow. Yeah. Okay. There you go. Yes, it's actually a great thing. It was, it was always just started out with. Yeah. I started feeling uncomfortable and pains and like cramping, and then I'm like, okay, I, I think I'm in labor. And then you realize you really are. So this was like, you had just gotten to college like the day before normal day.

And then, um, you started to feel like that cramping and stuff and your water never break broke, but so were you alone? Were you at home? Like how did the early labor start for you? Yeah. I remember I was at home watching friends and I remember it, like friends came on like 11 or 1130 at night. So that's when I was like, okay, that's when my labor has started.

And I love that you can Mark that. Yes.

Yeah. And, and so I just stayed home and I remember staying home. You know, tried to stay home for as long as possible, because I didn't want to go and have, I didn't want to end up having a lot of interventions or things being done to me that I didn't think, you know, so sorry. I'm like as hands on as possible.

So we stayed home for a long time and then I didn't go. I was like 11 o'clock at night when I was like, Oh yeah, this is for sure labor. We went into the hospital in the next morning and I ended up giving birth at three o'clock in the afternoon. Wow. Okay. A pretty typical first labor. So usually we say like 12 to 18 hours is pretty normal for a first labor.

So it sounds like you were. Right in that you know, area. And then tell me about the transition to, from home to the hospital. Like being somebody who's mom birthed at home, and you kind of had a dream of birthing at home and then having to like, kind of make that turn to get to the hospital. Like, do you, do you remember what that looked like for you?

I remember the drive and I remember thinking. That my sister-in-law drove me to the hospital. And I remember thinking she's the worst driver ever, like driving your contractions. She Elise put some music on for you. Oh, well it was funny because my family at the time owned a coffee shop and they all stopped at the coffee shop to get snack.

And I was in the car, like, what are you doing? So it was pretty funny cause they were like, they're like, no, you've got plenty of time. We're going to get some coffee and snacks. Yeah. Thank you. No, it's so interesting because on a first birth you're like, I remember. Like, I was like, I have to go to the hospital right now and here I am, I'm a dude, I'm a doula.

And I'm like, Oh, I'm, I'm so far along. And my husband's like, got the Bradley Bookout and he's like, honey, I really feel like you're not far along. And that you have like a long way to go. And I'm like, no, I mean, this baby is coming like right now I'm a doula. And I remember like, everyone just totally taking their time and I'm like, why isn't there a sense of urgency?

And then when I got to the hospital, I was only one centimeter died. Yeah. So they were calm and cool. Like they, you know, was your mom, was your mom with you? Yeah, she was okay. I figured I was like, I figured she's like, you've got plenty. It's interesting. Because, so when I got to the hospital, they had, um, I specifically remember with my later births, you know, going back to this time that they checked me to see how dilated I was.

And I remember feeling so discouraged because I was probably only like three or four centimeters and that mentally was not good for me to hear that. Um, I feel like that slowed my birthday because I wasn't feeling like real motivated, like, okay, I'm almost there. I just felt really good discouraged. And so in my leg, their births, I never, if my midwife ever checked me, I always told her, do not tell me how dilated I am.

Don't tell me how fast I am. I don't want to know. Because I would rather feel confident, like I'm almost there and be really positive about it and move my birth along quicker, like that than to have negative feelings and to tighten up and slow the process down. Yeah. I think that is such an important thing to note because I'm with moms so many times and they will get to triage.

This is what they do here in North Carolina. They put you in triage first. When you get to the hospital, just to see if they're going to keep you and moms are like three, four, five centimeters, and you can just see their whole face, get defeated. And I'm thinking, Oh my goodness, like you've come so far.

Zero to four takes so long and so much hard work. And I just, I can never really convince moms of this like arbitrary number. You know, it's like so much more important where the baby is. Like, if the baby's like really low and go from five to 10 centimeters in one contraction, and I've seen that happen so many times.

So, so you got in and you kind of felt a little bit discouraged, but, um, yeah, I'm kinda getting the sense that you have a pretty high pain tolerance. So, so are you contractions like pretty well, it sounds like. I think so. Um, just because yeah, I think pretty good pain tolerance. And I also, um, you know, I think this is like the one pain our bodies are made to go through to feel, you know, like you break a bone, you cut yourself, you get in a car accident, whatever, like that is totally unnatural.

We were made to birth. You know, we were created for this and we can handle it. Yes, yes. I tell everybody if you want to go natural, you absolutely can. Because again, you are made to do it. It's a whole nother thing. Whether or not someone yeah. And wants to, or not, but, but you can, we don't want to, but for me after.

Especially after four of them I've felt not, not just physically, like I could do it, but mentally and emotionally, like. Did you just see what I did or there's not one, I dunno. Can I cuss? Like there's not any fucking thing I can't do, you know, it's an explicit podcast, please, guys. It makes me feel comfortable, you know, and you just feel like a bad ass, like, yup.

I did that. And um, now I can do anything else I want to do, so don't try and stop me. Yes, I think so I've had one medicated birth and one completely all natural birth. And one of the things that I just always go to is that, um, I'm an, I'm an athlete. And I grew up as a competitive soccer player and a runner.

And to me it was like, like I pushed my body to a place I didn't even think was possible. And I went so deep inside myself that I literally like. Awoke from my natural birth and I have never been so proud of myself. So I feel like that's kind of what your, you know, what you're talking about is that similar feeling.

Just like I could take on anything after I did that. Yeah. It's a sense of accomplishment and realizing, you know, Yeah, what your body can do and, and that it's it's okay. Yeah. So, okay. So with that first birth, like what came next? Like did your whole family like pile into the hospital room? I kind of just like, I envisioned like, you know, 10 people around you, like what is, Oh yeah.

Yes. It was like my grandparents, my parents. All of my siblings. It was funny. My sister in law. Do you have brothers? Do you have brothers? Two brothers, brothers. They were there. My brother, my older brother was in college in Monterey, like in Northern California. And they like drove down to be at my birth.

Oh, I love this because I bet. If, if all of you guys were born at home, then some of your siblings saw the other sub siblings be born, I'm assuming. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. So I have my brother, there's four youngers of us and he was at all of our bursts and then I have three younger siblings and I was at all of their bursts.

So, and that's like, my girls were at, you know, each. Um, younger siblings birth also. So it's just, it's not something weird or uncomfortable at all. It's it's like, um, it's normal. It's just normal party in the hospital for birth. Like the only thing on natural for your family was that you were in a hospital, right?

I'm assuming, Oh yeah. They all gave me shit about that. I'm sure. Okay, so you've got a party going on. And then, then what happened? Like how did labor and delivery progressed? Um, I did a lot of walking and. I'm trying to remember. I remember doing like a lot of walking and feeling like it wasn't pursing that fast because you know, my mom's like, it's normal.

It's your first birth. Cause I'm like, and I'm, I'm also like, just get this shit done. And I remember like, snapping my fingers, like legs let's do this. Yeah. Um, but I had to wait. I do remember throwing up like all over, um, my husband, my boyfriend at the time, like all over his arm and then like my mom's feet, because whenever I go into transition and I know this now, after having four kids before I'm going to transition, I always just start throwing up and I will just throw up.

Everything totally normal right there with you. And I cannot tell you how much throw up. I have actually caught and it's so I need, because when moms started throwing up, they also in transition. It's so common that they're like, Oh no, I can't do this anymore. You're like, you're done. It's the end zone. So you were throwing up everywhere.

Oh, yeah. And it felt so, you know, and it feels so good afterwards. And I, and I knew after that first birth with my next ones like that, I, you know, at first I was like, I don't, I don't want to throw up. Or I don't know what it was like, maybe I thought it was a bad thing, but then I realized, like, I felt so much better afterwards and my body needed to do this because it was like getting ready to do everything out.

So. And I remember throwing up a Turkey and cranberry sandwich and there was cranberries all over the floor

with every birth. I always was like, I don't care you sandwich. Oh my God. I am not having a Turkey salmon for dinner tonight. That is Virginia. And then, and then after birth, So like before, like when I'm in labor, I want a Turkey and cranberry sandwich. And then after I had my babies, I want chicken piccata.

That's just how I liked it. This is so awesome. I eat, I don't even know if they have it on the West coast. I eat Bojangles on the way in the hospital. Like disgusting, like fry, basically like Southern fried chicken, like the song mr. Bojangles, like that. No, I've never it right with fried chicken and, uh, like a big like Southern buttermilk biscuit.

Like that is a, that is my labor meal. Oh my goodness. So you're throwing up everywhere and um, and now, you know, that that was transition and that your baby was coming. And then, um, was this hospital like, were they open to you? Just kind of birding in whatever position you wanted? You know, now I'm trying to remember.

And I, you know, I can't remember exactly, but for me, and I know it, so it's counter to what I've seen at a lot of home births or what I've always read, but I like birthing laying down for me. Like I will labor walking around and I really like to labor on hands and knees and I feel good doing that. But then when I'm going to push.

I like to like to lay down and, and I like counter pressure and that's always been really good for me. Like whether I'm not laying on my back, a lot of times I'll lay on my side, but always like pushing my legs against, like with my last I, with my last three births, it was like putting my legs against my midwife shoulders.

And then having that. That counter pressure was always really good for me like to push. And so I was, I was actually okay. Lane. So I had all of my, I ended up having all of my girls laying down. I labored walking around lots of hands and knees. And then I laid down when I had them. Did you lay down on your side or were you laying down on your back for the hospital?

And I was on my back and then with my other three. With my , I, I had labored in the pool, like we had a pool and then I got up out of the pool because I had a cervical lip, so I wasn't able to push. So I got out and I laid down on the ground and they had, they held my legs kind of up closer. Um, dilate and get rid of the cervical lip all the way.

And then they had said to me, okay, you can jump back into the pool. Now. I was like, I am not moving. I'm having this baby on the ground. And I had my second one just on the floor, behind my couch, in my living room. I love it. You know, that, that baby's coming when you cannot move when you're like, no, the baby's so low and the baby's coming out and you're like, Nope.

I'm just not moving. I'm having the baby right here. I'm like, I'm like, I'm not moving. They're like, okay, let's grab some chucks pads. So you don't ruin your floor on your hair. Did you know it was a boy or a girl beforehand? You know what we did find out? Yeah, you did. Okay. So you knew it was going to be a girl, right?

First one. And then, um, so then, so how many did you push for a long time or just a few pushes? Nope. I pushed twice. Anyone who's listening to this podcast and you were pregnant with your first baby, do not listen to Tori Jo. I know it is very rare to only push two times. No, that's amazing. I think that that speaks a lot to having a natural childbirth and being able to move your body freely while you're laboring.

It also speaks to the fact that you were young. I will say that the younger you are birth is just easy. Yeah, exactly. I'm like 18 year olds are meant to have babies. 40 year olds were also meant to have babies because I also did that, but it's just a little harder, just a little, yeah. You know, you need some help getting out of the squat.

Yup. And I, and I never tour with any of my girls either. Oh, that's so incredible. I think I have, I have a lot of control over how fast I'm pushing or not. And in the hospital, I didn't realize that I just pushed, you know, Yeah. But then later when I had my home birth, my midwife would be like, okay, don't push slow down and wait.

And I remember thinking like, I am not going to rush this. I am not going to tear. And so I, you know, I would push a couple of times and then I wouldn't, I would hold off because I didn't want to go too quickly. And, um, and it always worked well. So I think that that is like a really beautiful thing to teach.

Other women that are birthing is to. Breathe your baby down and listen to your body. Like I've been in a hospital room so many times where they're like push, push, push, and I'm on the other side of the doula. And I'm like, listen to your body, listen to your body and your body. Like your body tells you.

Tells you exactly what to do. And it doesn't tell you to do something to hurt itself. Women in comas can have babies. Okay. Your body will do it. Whether you try or not. Yes, with that, I call it the, I mean, I don't call it the whole community calls it the ejection reflex, but that ejection reflex is going to get triggered.

Whether you are, whether you are part of the birthing experience or not. So. Exactly. And so it's good to know that and good to know that you don't have to rush it any faster than it needs to happen. Yeah. So she comes out and you knew she was a girl. Okay. You know, and here you are. You're really young mom.

Like you're in college. I can't believe you went back to school five days later, but that's a whole nother, I'm like, that's all another podcast. So tell me like, just what that moment was like, like. Just becoming a model for the first time. Oh my gosh. I remember thinking, I remember holding her and thinking this is the most beautiful baby.

In the entire world. How, how, how was this possible? And I remember saying to everyone that became in y'all with him, like, Oh my gosh, isn't this the most beautiful baby I've ever seen? And then now I look at pictures and I'm like, actually, she was back here. Oh my goodness, your journey with hormones, you know, that oxytocin, that's like running through your body.

You're like, yeah. This is amazing. And of course, you know, you're made to feel that way and it's bonding and it's so great, but her, because she was sunny side up, so I had a lot of back labor. And so her face was very swollen and her nose was like, you know, bigger than it should have looked, probably. So she was probably bruised.

Her face was probably bruised from your pelvic bone. Exactly. So that's why looking at pictures. I'm like, Oh, she doesn't. She looks a little different, you know? Um, but I couldn't see that at the time. Did you, did they like let the cord stop pulsating or like, did you cut the cord or how did that go down?

Um, her dad cut the cord. Yeah. And we waited for it to finish, which, you know, that's another thing like people having hospital births that you should. All of this stuff, you need to be like super vigilant and aware of like, if you want something a certain way, you have to be, you know, or have a doula, obviously to be your advocate.

Otherwise they're just going to go by what standard. So, and for us, it was important to wait, you know, for our, all of the girls to, um, to finish pulsing and pulsating and then, and then cut it, you know, later when we were ready. So I'm going to ask you when I ask everyone is that I, and I will disclose that I ingested my placenta.

And I'm a big believer with any of your birds. Did you do placenta encapsulation or, um, or any ritual with your placenta? Yeah, with my, I didn't with my first one. I don't remember. I guess I don't really remember that being an option now. It's so. Much more common. I think to do with my first one, we took the placenta home and planted it, and that's what my mom did with all of ours.

We had Rose trees in the front of our house and she planted, you know, our placentas and then planted a Rose tree over it had Rose trees. So you buried yours and with, with what? With a Rose tree also. That's you know what good question. I'm like trying to remember. I'm like, I think we did because I've moved since, do you have that out still?

So I can see like someone being crazy and being like, I have to take this tree with me. It's my placenta tree. Um, I'm not a very sentimental person actually. I'm like, that was cool. Um, and now I'm cool to move on also. But with my last three, I encapsulated the placentas and, um, and took those. And I felt like it was really good.

I know I've never, I never get posted pardon, but I do lose a ton of hair and I do get, um, I'm also anemic. Like I get pretty anemic and I felt like it's helped with both of those. I wish I could like shout from the rooftop. We have clinical scientific data or whatever, and they won't let us do any of that.

So we just have to go with mom testimonials that say, uh, our hemoglobin increases and our anemia gets better. And we feel better when we ingest our placentas. I have seen a lot of difference with the hair loss. There's a company someone needs to, if it's not already like. I had chunks of like bald spots on the front of my head.

And I would wear these big, beautiful headbands from Uganda. I had a friend that had gone to Uganda and gotten me these big headbands. And I just, I warm for months until the baby here started to come back. Oh, no, no. Yeah. I I'm thankful that I have a lot of hair to start with, but. Every time after I had a kid, I lost so much hair and that's what my body, that's also my body's way of like, when I'm stressed, I'll lose hair also.

Like I don't, I won't let it out other ways. At least you've got hair to shed though. That's true. But yeah, I lose a lot of it. And, and then also through breastfeeding, like I feel like my hair breaks off a lot, a lot easier and it doesn't grow as much. And basically I've basically been. Breastfeeding are pregnant almost for the last 14 years.

I haven't, I mean, I've, I've had like two little breaks in there. Oh God. I just want to give you a hug. So, I mean, it's just so hard. It is so beautiful and it is so it's just like the most selfless, selfless thing we do. We just give over ourselves to our children. Know. Yeah. It's, it's funny. I don't know.

You know, people always say, Oh, my kids keep me young. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about because my kids literally suck the life out of me. And I can't even imagine, like, when you say like 14 years, I'm like, okay, so mine are 15 months apart and I only have two, but you make me want to have like four more.

And, um, but I just like. I feel like I should probably shouldn't say this on the podcast, but I'm going to, but I call it like touched out. Like I was like, so pregnant and nursing for like, I don't know, four year and mine was only like four years. So I can't even imagine 14. And I just like, got to the point where I'm like, Oh God, I know I can not have sex tonight.

I just, I can't even kiss you. I'm like I other person sucking on my boobs. I'm like, Or even like looking at me, I'm like, I just, yeah. Can I get my body back for like an hour, one hour to myself, you know, in four years, you know? So when you say 14, it makes me have heart palpitations because in one sense, I'm like, Oh, I just wish I had so many more kids.

And then I'm like, Oh my God, 14 years. You, I just, you're amazing. Like you are amazing. Okay. So let's go back. I, I'm not dying to hear about these home birds. So, so you had three of them and, um, you know, I probably have to have you back for like a million episodes, but just to kind of. If you could just kind of wrap them up or like when your favorite, like what your favorite parts of those home birds are, how they unfolded, like, what do you w what can you tell me?

Cause I did not offer that at home, so I want to know, I want to know all about it. My home births were great and I I'm thankful that I can compare the two and I would 100% for me advocate. The home birth. It was, uh, I had, uh, an amazing midwife, um, and who is an amazing teacher. And. She is like a very, it was like a very calming presence.

And I just had really, really wonderful births and they, everything went smoothly, everything. And I also birth pretty, I would say easy because I've never had a complication. I've never torn. I've never, um, you know, my pushing always go super quick with every, with every birth, all four births, I've only had to push, you know, Two to maybe eight times, um, maybe eight at the most.

Yeah. Oh, sorry. I can't give like some amazing story of like, you know, like, Oh, I pushed for hours and I did it. No, I had it easy. Um, but, but yeah, with each birth, it got a little shorter and shorter with my third birth. It was maybe eight hours or sorry, with my second birth, it was maybe eight hours. Tops.

Okay. Then my third birth, I think because my, between my second, third, they were pretty close together that my girls are two years apart and it was my third birth and I was like still breastfeeding. So I was breastfeeding my second daughter through pregnancy, and then we tandem nurse for like another year.

Um, That is hard to do. That is really hard to do because a lot of moms, their milk dries up when they get pregnant again. So did you go through a period when you were like, did you go through any period of time where like your milk production slowed down when you got pregnant or was it pretty consistent for you?

I don't think so. Yeah. I've always had a ton of milk, so, um, And I've always nursed other people's kids too. I know some people think that's weird, but I'm like, if there's a baby sure. All nurses. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay. So I'm just going to like interject this little story right here is that I came home from the hospital with my first and, um, this is all another podcast, but he was born at 43 weeks gestation because I'm stubborn as shit.

And I was like, No induction. So, you know, so yeah, but my milk, like just did not come in and he was giant, he was almost 11 pounds. And so he's like this humongous 11 pounds founder with like so overdue and so hungry and like no milk. And my best friend had just had twins. Like, I don't know, the year before.

And so she was nursing twins and just had all this moment. She came over and I'm like crying. And she just said, can I just feed your baby? And I'm like, yeah. And she just grabbed him and she fed him and he was so calm and he was so happy. And I, that made me calm. And then my milk came in like a few hours later.

And I really think it's because, because I was able to just like find peace in myself because she was nursing. My baby and taking care of work, stressing out. Yeah. Then I actually had a milk donor for him because my milk stopped when I got pregnant. Five months later, I got pregnant with my second and my milk stopped when I got pregnant.

And so I actually had a milk donor that supplies the breast milk. So I just stopped. How many babies besides your four I'm like how many babies have you nurse? Can you disclose this? You know, People probably think this is weird too, but I have, I honestly, I'm not even sure because I have a, my family will have a lot of kids around the same age.

There's 15 cousins and I have the oldest and the youngest of the 15. And, um, and so. I remember shoot, I know my, my sister-in-law was in school. And so she would go to school on the weekends and their being would not take a bottle. So I hung out with my brother when his wife was in school, would nurse their baby.

Like every Saturday and Sunday we would hang out and I'd nurse, their baby, who was like a few months different from, I think there are a few months apart from my second daughter. Um, And so I would, so I've nursed a few of my nieces and nephews, that one, I, I nursed the longest while my sister in law finished school.

And, um, and then also whenever I'm watching Amala, if I don't have, I usually will take my, I mean, not always, but sometimes I'll take my kids with me, but if I don't take them with me, then I. We'll always like be nursing, friends, kids down there. Cause there's always a baby. Yeah. I have somebody that I know.

And so a lot of times I'll either take my breast pump and then I donate my milk to a hospital down there because it's different there than it is here. They'll take your donated milk cause they really need it in the hospitals. So I'll do that. Or I'll just, if I'm with friends, then I'll just. Nursing their babies.

Oh my gosh. I love everything about you. I'm like, I just want it join your family and I love everything about you. Okay. So here's a question I have for you and you have home. Birds is so I. In my mind, I'm just like, Oh, you go into labor and you're at home. And then you deliver at home. But then I'm like just instead of having to transfer to the hospital, but I'm like, it's quite possible.

I guess that you go into labor and you're not at home. And then you have to go home to go have your home Bart. So did you go into labor at home the other three times or were you kind of out and about, and then you had to go home. With my second one, I was at home and that was fine. Cause I remember like waking up in the middle of the night, like, Oh yeah, I'm in labor.

And then, so we just stayed. And then with my third, I was actually dilated at five centimeters for a solid week with my third daughter before I had her and I could reach up and touch her head. Wow. Yeah. And I remember walking around,

I remember walking around being like. There is literally a head in between my legs and it was July and it was so hot and I was miserable, but I had. You know, it was under two hour labor. It was like an hour and a half labor with her. So it was that, it was always, I get scared. I'm like when my clients are like five to six centimeters dilated before labor starts, I'm like, I've never, I'm not even gonna make it to you.

And I'm like, it is going to be a miracle if you even, you know, if they're going to the hospital. Yeah. Um, cause I forgot to tell you this, but it is, it is still illegal in North Carolina to have a home birth. Isn't that so sad. Oh, I cry. I just want to cry. Um, maybe this podcast will start to change things like that as the interviews go on.

So, um, that's insane. Yeah. So hopefully for your third one, hopefully you are already at home too. So your second one, you started labor in the middle of the night. Yes. And then my third one, no, it, my third one, it was like, we were at my grandma's house, which thinks the, it was, is like three minutes away from my house.

And we were having dinner over there. Hold on. I said grandma that lived in Guatemala. Yeah. Okay. Oh my gosh. Okay. For anyone who's listening, if you haven't listened to Tori on the rise podcast, go listen to the January 1st episode with Tori and you can learn all about her. Amazing. Bad company in her sweet grandma.

Okay. Sorry. Keep going. So you're at your grandma's house, giving you a little plug? Yes. We were having dinner at my grandma's with our two other daughters and I started, I felt a little where I was like, Oh, okay. I think I'm going to go into labor tonight. You know, I just, I just had this feeling where I'm like, I don't want to keep eating food.

Yeah. And I feel like I need to go to the bathroom maybe. So I texted my husband because at this one we had decided we didn't want to have anyone else at this birth. I'm like, no, I just want it to be us. Um, Oh, I bet your family was. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, but the other ones, it was like, you know, we had a bunch of people at, and I just wanted real quiet. Okay, because I don't know. You just, you just can tell like, with, with my second, with my first birth, everybody was there with my second one. I had like a whole playlist of music, which I really liked.

And then with my third one, I just wanted it quiet. So it was just with every birth. I just felt something different. Yeah. Yeah. And. And so for this one, I was like, okay, well, I don't want to say that. I think I'm going into labor. So I texted him, we were at the dinner table and I was like, we should go home because I'm going to, I have the baby.

And he just was like, okay guys, you know, time to clean up. And so, you know, the kid, the girls finished dinner and I, as we were driving home, I was like, yeah, definitely call the midwife and let her, let them know they should come home. And so. Our other two girls were kind of younger at that time. So it was like, just drive around for a few minutes and let them fall asleep in the car.

So they had like fallen asleep in the car. We called the midwives. And then we came in later, our older daughters down, put them to sleep. And then my midwives got there right away. And my husband like made coffee for them and all this stuff. Cause he's like, Oh, it'll probably be a long night. And then all of a sudden, Nope.

Like they could just hear when they walked in the door. Um, through my labor sounds like, Oh no, the baby's coming like soon. Yeah. Labor, like in transition basically. Oh yeah. Yeah. I was like, when they walked in the door, I was in my bedroom, on the floor on hands and knees naked. Yeah. So, and just like moaning that guttural, like yes.

That girl, the baby is coming now. Yes. There was like the deep. Like the deep noises that you're, that you start making. And so, um, that was quick and, um, yeah, we had her super quick. She was born at like 1130 at night and, um, the midwife stayed for a couple hours. I got up, took a shower and we laid down and went to sleep.

Oh my gosh. So different than a hospital birth. Like, so yeah, different. Okay. So did you have chicken piccata then the next morning? My mother-in-law brought me chicken piccata the next morning. Oh my goodness. I love it. Okay, so you have four, you have four girls? No boys. Yep. Yep. They, you guys don't know how to make it.

Boys at all. So now do their personalities kind of match their birth stories or like what you wanted? Like, so you remember, you were saying like, number one, like it was like a party, but then like number three, you wanted to be alone. Like does, do, did any of that intuition like Passover to their personalities?

I would say somewhat. Yes. Um, my, my first one, she. Still gives me the most grief out of any of my kids. I'm like, yep. Longest labor, most painful. She was sunny site up. Yep. She's

and then, then with my, with my next two, they, you know, my third one was super easy chill. Um, and, and she's like that as a person, she is just like the child that. No matter what happens or what situation she is in, in life, she will be happy and fine. And that's exactly how her birth was. And, and with my, with my third one, she's like very same thing.

It's so interesting that you ask that very steady, but on top of it and, um, it's just, yes, that goes along with their birth so much. And I don't know if that's true for many other people, but with my, with my girls, I hadn't really thought about that, but now that you're asking it it's true. And with my fourth daughter, she was also very quick.

It was like a two hour, two hour labor. And, and when she, she came out, it was just the craziest thing. Cause she did not make a noise for like a solid 30 minutes. And was she, she shut her eyes though. Is she looking at you? Oh yeah. Yup. She was open. Her eyes were wide open and she was the most alert child I've ever had.

She like lifted her head. She was just laying on my stomach. Her cord was really short, so I couldn't pull her all the way up to my chest until I'd given birth to the placenta. And so she was laying on my stomach. She didn't want a nurse. She didn't want to cry. Her eyes were open and she was just looking back and forth.

And then she just laid her head down on me and was just looking around. And taking it all in for like a good 30 minutes. And then she started making noises and then she nursed and it was totally fine. And she is like that still. And she's, she's been my most chill, quiet, um, pleasant child. So easy. And how old, or how old are all your kids right now?

Um, 14, nine, seven and two. Oh my goodness. They're 12 years apart from. Yeah, that's the oldest. Oh my gosh. Incredible. I asked that cause I do have a lot of moms that I've been their doula for, like up to their fifth. I haven't been a doula for more than five, like five babies of the same, you know, mom. Yeah.

Who knows, you know, I'm only 40 and they're only about the same age now, too. I don't know how many more they may have. Um, but for the moms that have, I had four and five that I've been there, doulas. These are conversations that we have a lot that they're, um, their labor and deliveries sort of, um, have kind of marked their, their personality tight.

Um, yeah, like they made their entrance, the world, um, the way that they, uh, kind of wanted to be known. So really cool. Well, if you could like, look back on all the experiences like. Do you have like a favorite moment or a funny moment, or like, is there a story that you find yourself like repeated, lead telling?

I would say I don't, you know what, I don't feel the need to. Like tell a lot of stories or talk about it. If people want to know, then I, you know, obviously tell them whatever I'm on here telling you everything, but I'm not like shoving it in people's faces like, Oh, this is how I birth. And because I know it's different for everybody.

And I would say with my, with my third, it was, it was great. And it was just. Easy. And I remember, I remember being so happy with how fast it was and I was like, yes. You know, and then with my fourth one, I was just also so glad, like, and I just snap my fingers. I. It's funny. I will snap be snapping my fingers and birth and being like, let's do this.

And I'll tell people that too, like, I don't want to wait. So that's kind of, yeah. That's your thing I'm like right now I'm snappy, snappy with you. I got it. Yeah. And with my, with my second. I thought it was funny. I didn't realize I was doing this, but I was humming the jeopardy song, like, well, I'm in labor.

Do do, do, do do. Yes. Yeah. I would do that, like during all of my contractions. And I remember like my mom and husband kind of laughing and I'm, I asked them, they were like, what were you guys kind of like trying not to laugh about it. They're like, you're humming jeopardy. Was that like the last thing you watched on TV that day?

I mean, that is so random. I think so because, and I don't even really watch much TV, but I do like jeopardy. Um, so that was, that was kind of funny. Okay. Totally random. But all of your trips to Guatemala for your business, Did you ever have the opportunity to like, interact with like the birding community there?

Um, you don't know why I'm asking you this question, but something is just making me want to ask you that. It's a great question. I, I actually, haven't had a lot of interaction with them just because I'm usually either doing business or just there with, you know, hanging out with people that I know. Yeah.

But. But I do know that there is a growing community of midwives that are going down there to provide side because yeah. To provide yeah. You know, better care and service because it's not, it's not always great conditions in the hospitals. If you're not wealthy, that it's very less than, um, Than anything we're used to.

So, and sadly, the C section rate is really on the rise because, um, they'll have young mothers coming in there and they don't, I don't, I don't know why. I'm just assuming they don't want to wait for them to labor and they'll give them a C-section. And then because of the conditions. That a lot of these hospitals are in these mothers are being sent back to their homes or their villages and, and getting infections and then getting sick and they're not getting proper care.

And it's just not a good situation. It's really encouraging though that, okay. Large group of midwives are forming down there. To create some better options. Oh, that's awesome. I told you I have a group of friends that recently. Yeah. Um, moved to Guatemala and started a business there. Um, with Torah that's called torrent consulting, but, um, the wife, Jamie, she is, um, a Bradley instructor and she's a doula also.

And so I have this dream in the next, um, you know, for my yearly goals is to get down to Guatemala and to meet up with Jamie and to, um, maybe attend or see some birds and Guatemala. So maybe we'll have to coordinate. Yeah, we'll have to coordinate a trip. And on the podcast, I just finished an interview with a couple Jonathan and Blair.

And they, um, were adopting their son from, um, a hospital in California and rape before they had, um, gone to Guatemala and Jonathan is a paramedic and, um, he ended up delivering a baby, like on the streets and Guatemala and. And the mom was so thankful she named her son, Jonathan after him. So that's so sweet.

Yeah. That's like the greatest honor that they'll give. Yeah. Yeah. It's really cool. So, well, Tori, it has been so awesome to hear your stories and I've just, I feel like I just learned so much from you, so, okay. But before I let you go, I asked everybody the same question is that when you look back on like raising baby is.

Do you have like a favorite baby product or like a tool or anything, um, that you definitely would want to share? Like, make sure you have this in your house or you do this. Like, what is that for you? Yeah, I'm too. There's two things that I've always loved. I'm probably not the best person to ask this question because I don't like stuff.

I don't like gadgets. And so never had, you know, everyone will have like the chairs and the swings and a monitor and all this stuff. And I don't have any of that shit. So I bet you do a whole lot of baby wearing. Yup. So two things I had with my second or, sorry, I didn't have with my first two daughters and that I had with my third and fourth and I thought it was great.

I loved it. And it made a big difference was a baby hammock. So instead of a crib or, I mean, my kids all. Sleep in bed with us anyways. That's all one other story. And everyone has opinions on it. I'm sure. But, um, so we always co-sleep, but when they were little, I had a baby hammock that you suspend from the ceiling and you can have it like next to your bed or over your bed.

I had it over the foot of my bed and then I would during the night. Like lay our daughters in it, the last two anyways. And that's where she would sleep. And then if she would start to wake up or whatever, you can just like, kind of. Nudge them with your foot. I don't want to say kick your baby, but, um, you just give them a little push and it swings and it like will rock them back to sleep.

And so I thought that that was really cool. I loved having the hammock, so cool. I happen to know I'll put it in the show notes, cause I've never heard of this before. Do you happen to know the company or what the name of it is? It's fine. I can Google it with a Z. I want to say like. Zora or Zulu, or I can't remember.

I ordered it from, I ordered it online somewhere. I don't think it's very common in America to have that because I haven't known anyone else that's ever happened. I'll find it. And I'll put it in the show notes at the end of this. So it was, I loved having that and I felt like my daughter slept really great in it.

And then a sling. I I've been wearing my daughters in a sling, a ring sling, you know, from my first one up until now. And I wear them in there until they're like three years old and that's how I get everything. Then that's how I can work with my kids. They will sleep on me. You can nurse them in it. You can go about your day.

I can go and work in my office. I can have meetings, everything. I will not go anywhere without a ring sling. Baby wearing so special. Like, I mean, I cannot tell you how many times I like vacuumed and cleaned my entire house because you have both your arms free and yet your baby is so happy on us. You know, like our babies want to be on us, so, Oh yeah.

My kids. Would sleep better in there, they nurse. Great. That's how I got through college typing papers. That's how I run a business. I've done it all with a baby strapped to me. Alright. So before we go, um, tell us just a little bit more about your business, how people. Find you how? I mean, I already mentioned they could go listen to the rise podcast and hear your whole story, but, um, tell everybody how to find you and how to look up and buy these gorgeous bags, um, that you're making from Guatemala.

Yeah. So, um, you can check out the podcast and my website is ETL triangle.com. Aisha. We already talked about her, but it's I X, C H E L. Triangle. Um, doesn't it doesn't look like it sounds, but that that's how you spell it and we're on. Um, yeah, you can check out our website. We're on social media, Instagram as ETL triangle.

Um, you can connect to that way if you are in the Redlands area, which is Southern California, we have our shop down there. So you guys. Stop by. I love meeting people in person and connecting that way, but if you're not, you know, hop on the internet, we're there. Cause now everybody knows everything about you.

Yeah. Thank you for coming. I'm like, thank you for cussing because I say bad words all day long. It just makes me feel better when other people cuss. Especially in labor. I love it when mom's just like, let it go. And their labor. So Tori, it's been awesome having you on. I am so sorry. They did to tell you about my first book that I wrote that is launching this summer.

It's a 42 week guide to your pregnancy. It's a collection of birth stories. It has a ton of doula advice from all of the questions that my clients have asked me over the last 14 years. It has hysterical partner tips that you will want to read to your partner. And it has journaling prompts because nobody has time to write a 20 pages in their journal about their pregnancy.

So I've taken the Liberty to give you some prompts of things that I think you might want to remember member back on after the baby's born. So again, you can go to birth story.com and preorder a copy today, and it would mean the world to me.

Thank you for listening to birth story. My goal is you'll walk away from each episode with a clear picture of how labor and delivery might go. And that you will feel empowered by the end of your pregnancy to speak up plan and prepare for the birth you want. No matter what that looks like.

Thanks again for listening, you can find me on Facebook and Instagram with the handle at birth story podcast.