36 Learning About Informed Consent and Free Birthing With Sarah Leahy

In this episode Heidi interviews Sarah Leahy, the founder of The Autonomous Birth Movement, about her two vastly different birthing experiences, in the hospital and at home, and how she is campaigning for the mother’s right to informed consent. Learn about spinning babies, what free-birthing is, the controversy behind it, and why it may or may not be a viable option for your personal birth plan. Sarah’s favorite baby product is the Bum Genius cloth diaper brand and to talk with her personally about The Autonomous Birth Movement contact her via Instagram.

Looking for a Virtual Doula to create a custom birthing experience and guide you through your journey to parenthood in the United States? Contact Heidi at www.mydoulaheidi.com For additional free birth education resources and to purchase Heidi’s book, Birth Story: Pregnancy Guidebook + Journal, visit www.birthstory.com. Want to share your thoughts on the episode? Leave a review and send a message directly to Heidi on Instagram.

TRANSCRIPTION:

What does a contraction feel like? How do I know if I'm in labor and what did the day of labor look like? Wait, is this normal? Hey, I'm Heidi. My best friends. Call me hides. I'm a certified birth doula host of this podcast and author of birth story and interactive pregnancy guidebook. I have supported hundreds of women, labor and deliveries, and I believe every one of them and you deserves a microphone and a state.

So here we are, listen, each one to get answers to these tough questions, since birth story, where we talk about pregnancy labor deliveries, where we tell our stories and share our feelings and of course chat about our favorite baby products and motherhood. And because I'm passionate about birth outcomes, you will hear from some of the top experts and labor and delivery, whether you are pregnant, trying desperately to get pregnant, or you just love a good birth story.

I hope you will stick around and be part of this birth story family. Thank you for listening to the birth story podcast. If you are tuning in for the first time, I want to encourage you to start at the beginning. I want you to go on a journey with me and allow me to be your virtual doula. And teach you all the things along the way.

So I'm just gonna, I'll give you a couple of highlights as some of the earlier podcast episodes. If you are just now tuning in. So very first episode, episode one, you can learn all about tell me who I am, why I became a doula, why it is I do what I do, and also, so my very own birth story with my second child Jagger, then I've interviewed some really cool CEOs.

So. Episode three, Tori Jones is the CEO of shell triangle and she was also featured on Rachel Hollis's. The rise podcast. Episode seven was Rachel coli. The CEO of can do kiddo. She was just on good morning America. She's an incredible occupational therapist that teaches you how to play with your baby in her.

First stories are incredible episode. Ken was one of my best friends. Amy V back in the car. We have done episodes on micro preemies, episode eight, teen 21 on international adoption out of Uganda, 24 and 25. Oh, those episodes, like get a box of tissues. They're on Seragusi and cancer. We've addressed hypnobirthing fertility, really easy, joyful medicated birds, really hard, long labors, medicated, unmedicated, everything in between.

So I hope you'll start at the beginning. Let the bird podcast take you on a page all the way through and enjoy this episode and then remembered a rewind all the way back to episode one. Thanks for tuning in. Episode 36, Sarah Lahey. This episode is really exciting. And on the birth story podcast, we're digging into an interview in which we haven't touched before free birth.

Yep. You heard me correctly free birth. That means unassisted by herself free Sara Lee. He reached out to me wanting to share her journey into choosing an unassisted home birth. I just asked today that you guys set aside judgment set aside what it is that you, you are doing for your body and your baby that you feel is inherently correct.

And you just listen to Sarah story. Paris so much that we can learn from every woman's birth story, whether they're at home, whether they're at the hospital, whether they're assisted, whether they're unassisted, whether they're medicated, whether they are unmedicated, whether had their heads, a belly birth or a vaginal birth.

Sarah Lee, his story is that about empowerment and about choice. Thank you for listening to our very first episode on unassisted free birth. Welcome Sarah Lee here to the birth story podcast. How are you doing today? Hello? I'm good. Thanks for having me. You were reaching out to me. You want to tell everybody how we got connected and why this interview is going on today?

Sure. So I had what I think is a very interesting birth story, and I know that. It really helped me to hear other people's unique stories when I was trying to figure out what to do with my second. So I was looking around for different podcasts on the subject and I found yours and really liked it. So, yeah.

So I thought I would submit and see if you thought it was a good story. And if maybe other people might. I want to hear it too and gain some insight and info from that. Okay. Well, I think you have a really powerful story. You're also a doctor. And so we're going to talk a little bit about what happened with your first child and then how it powered you for your second child's birth story.

So tell us a little bit more about yourself. Like where do you live? How many kids do you have that kind of thing? So I'm from Massachusetts. I have two kids, two boys, they're three and one, and, and I are working on our house pretty much constantly. It was definitely a fixer upper, but it's starting to look good.

He and I own a practice together. We went to chiropractic school together and we opened our practice in 2011. So we've been open for sometime now, but I've been home the last couple of years with. The kids because we decided that's what was best. And he kind of took over all the patients. So I have a background in a lot of things, medical, we have a lot of the same background knowledge as a medical doctor.

We just don't utilize it in the same way. So we do hands on work, rehab exercise, a lot of work with people to help them avoid drugs surgery. If that's something that they want. And we have really good success with that, and it's very, it's safe and it's effective. And it's a really great treatment for a lot of our patients that otherwise would end up if they went to go see a medical doctor with drugs or surgery.

And it just feels really good. Can I say the release? So my children and I go to the chiropractor weekly. It's a practice that we've had since I became pregnant with my first child and my kids were actually adjusting. I did buy a chiropractor within their first two days of life. You know, just coming through the birth canal can be traumatic for the babies too.

And they come out all warped and contorted and you know, it just, I F I feel like they grew in, in chapter their adjustment, you know, post birth. So there might be some people listening, dr. Sarah though, that don't really know a lot about chiropractic care and pregnancy. So. Before we dive into your birth stories.

Could you just share a little bit about why someone who is pregnant right now or looking to get pregnant, why they would benefit from seeing a chiropractor? Sure. So there are a few reasons why that would be really helpful. One of the top ones for me is that, you know, everything's shifting and changing and you get really uncomfortable and you can end up with low back pain and hip pain and sciatica and all kinds of things.

Normally, maybe you would take medication for, but you don't want to, or shouldn't when you're pregnant. And these are all things that we can usually help with with, without, like I said, drugs or anything like that. No real interventions of any kind. So we use our hands to work on your muscles, to loosen things, make sure that everything's balanced side to side.

We make sure that your joints are moving properly and other good reason is. To make sure that baby can get in the best position for her. So some people find that closer to the end of their pregnancy, their baby's still breach and they can't find someone, even if they wanted to have a vaginal breach birth.

There aren't that many practitioners that will do that with you. They don't give it as an option. So you'd be scheduled for a C-section. If you have what's called the Webster. Technique. There are chiropractors that are certified Webster practitioners and the technique big, basically it balances your pelvis and make sure that side to side things are even nothing's tight.

There's enough room in there that maybe can turn around and get into the right position. So you're more likely to have a vaginal birth if that's what you wanted. Those are the two main reasons. I think I had lots of chiropractic care, obviously because I have a. Husband, who is a chiropractor when I was pregnant with both of my kids.

And we have a lot of pregnant patients that come in from the very beginning of their pregnancy all the way until the end. Yeah. Things just change. You know, you don't feel the same in the first trimester as you do in the third, but there are lots of things that come up that we can help with at a time when there's really there aren't that many other options for those elements.

No, that's such a good point, especially when you said maybe we would, even if we shouldn't, if we weren't pregnant, where we typically are like, Oh, my back hurts. Here's some Tylenol or ibuprofen. And then when you're pregnant, you start thinking, Oh, well, that's not something that you can just. Do lightly or do at all.

And so going to a chiropractor that can make you feel, just feel good and take away your pain when you're pregnant, but also it's so important and get everything in alignment. I highly encourage all of my doula clients to have a chiropractor on board throughout their entire pregnancy. And then they'll call me at the end and say like, they're going multiple times a week.

Towards the end of their pregnancy, just for some of that pain relief within their back and their hips and their pelvis, and really everywhere. So thank you for doing what it is that you do, and let's dive into. You're very unique. Awesome, empowering birth story with number two, but we couldn't get to number two without number one.

So your boys are three and one, why don't you take us on a journey? Sarah of number one. And then how that kind of led to number two and anyone who listens to my podcast knows I'm going to interrupt you a million times, the questions to take us, I guess, on a journey. And then I'm going to interject where I feel like I have a million question for you.

Okay. Sounds good. All right. So before I was pregnant with my first son, actually, we decided that. We wanted to have a baby and I got pregnant on the first try, but I ended up miscarrying. And so prior to that miscarriage I had had. This huge trust in my body, especially in its ability to grow a baby and birth a baby.

Yeah. Most people who become chiropractors have that. They trust that the body can heal itself if given the right things in most circumstances and that your body knows how to grow a person and to procreate, otherwise we wouldn't be here. And yes, there are some circumstances where we need help, but overall, that's the general idea.

So I had this huge trust that my body could do that. And then got pregnant on the first try. And I was like, yeah, I can totally do this obviously. And then found out that the baby stopped developing around week seven or so. And, um, so I ended up deciding to, to take, um, Cytotec and this carry at home because it had been five weeks or so, and it had everything hadn't come out.

So I miscarried at home, which was a sad experience, but it also made me kind of. Lose a little bit of trust that my body could do this. So. And I'll I'll interrupt right there. Side attack is a prostitute Landon that helps your uterus to contract, which can help to release a fetus or a baby that's inside of you.

It's also a drug that's used that the end of pregnancy to induce labor. So you chose to take this medicine to kind of help aid in that process. I did. So I went, when I went to my doctor, they gave me a couple of different options. I could have done a DNC. And gone in and basically had surgery and got under anesthesia and had everything taken out or take this medication, which I was told by my doctor.

It's Cytotec is not a medication for that use. It's actually an ulcer medication, but it has this side effect. And so it's used, used what they call off label. So not for that approved FDA use for this use. And it's, it's very common, but you have to use it in the right circumstances because it can have.

Prop, you know, people can have problems, but I was, I was told a lot of women aren't, but thankfully I was told, you know, it's off label. This is the use and it did its job. And I was fine. So took that medication and went through that. And then I kind of, you know, I kind of lost my trust because of what had happened to me.

What if I, what if that happened next time? What if that always happened? You know, I, I didn't know. And so we tried again to get pregnant and it was taking a while and. I wasn't getting any younger, cause I had already gone through my, you know, my bachelor's degree, my doctorate degree. I have a master's too.

It's been a lot of time in school and now we decided we want to do this and I didn't want to wait. So we ended up going back to the OB GYN practice that had been at prior and did intrauterine insemination or IUI. And I got pregnant on the second cycle there. So with the first, by the way, I didn't mention, I was go, I had a home birth midwife that I had lined up, but I didn't end up obviously needing her.

And then this next time I got pregnant through IUI. So I just stuck with my care, even though that wasn't where I wanted to be. The hospital was really close, was five minutes from my house. It was a good hospital. My insurance covered it. There were a lot of reasons why I stuck with it, even though my intuition was kind of telling, I mean, it was a bad idea and I always had this.

Thought in the back of my head that if I ended up in the hospital for my, but I would end up with a C-section and that little voice was right. But I only have for granted because it was, it was bad and left me with PTSD and postpartum depression. Um, but it taught me a lot and I don't think I'd be where I am if I hadn't gone through that.

So it's not a hundred percent regret. So for anyone listening, I mean, what happened? Let, like, let's just go through a number one. Like how did you end in a Syrian section? So I was in labor. I had prodromal labor, which is unproductive generally labor four days before I actually went into real labor. And so I had been up for like three straight days.

And then when I went into labor for reels, I ended up going to the hospital. After a few hours, I had a doula and she kept trying to make me wait, because when it's your first baby, you don't know, you don't know what it feels like. You don't know how close it is to the end. You don't know how much longer last or, or anything like that.

And she was trying to tell me I should stay at my house. Like a lot of people recommend for longer. And I said, I think I want to go in. And so after about four hours or so I went in and it was overnight and it was just one thing kind of led to another. I was doing fine. Bring around my baby was posterior.

So he's was facing the opposite direction he should have been, which gave me a lot of back labor. And so I was leaning forward a lot and eventually I decided I wanted to try nitrous oxide for pain management, and that required me to lay in a bed. Which was the complete opposite position of what was comfortable and beyond a continuous monitor.

And hold on. This is really interesting. I'm cutting in right here because where I'm at, you are not confined to a bed with nitrous oxide or continuous monitoring. So, so that's very interesting that at this hospital, But also this would be if anyone's listening and you're interested in nitrous oxide, what I'm hearing right now is talk to your provider about the hospital's protocols or policies before you put it in your birth plan.

Because here where I live in Charlotte, North Carolina, you can, you can be absolutely on nitrous oxide for a long period of time without continuous monitoring. And you don't have to be in the bed. They want you to be near the bed for just a few minutes, just to see how you handle it. But then you can be, you know, you have to be near the machine, which is near the bed, you know, but you can be on a birthing ball or you can be standing up leaning, you know, wherever you want to be.

So in your particular case, when they gave you a nitrous oxide, they confined you to the bed. This is what they told me. I don't remember anyone saying you have a choice. But I was definitely on a continuous monitor because they were watching the monitor constantly. But first of all, I wasn't breathing it improperly.

So matress, um, your other listeners don't know is it's been used in Europe forever. And it's now just an, it's kind of a newer thing here in the U S where you it's laughing gas essentially. So you breathe it in during a contraction. And at the height of your contraction is when it's, it should be the strongest and then you stop breathing it in.

And then it goes out of your system, which is one of the reasons why I chose that because it's not an epidural is M you know, they can take it out, but most people don't, or if you get some kind of a pain medication it's in your body, you can't just take it away. So this gave me a choice to try that, but if I didn't like it, I could stop.

But that's not how it worked out. So I ended up in that bed super uncomfortable. No one said maybe you should get out of that bed. So I just hop in the bed and I was just, I was having three minute long contractions back to back to back. It was just so excruciating and, uh, yeah, no one. No one said I should move well.

Okay. So a couple things were in doulas perspective, right there too. If you have three minute long contractions, that means that your body is what's doing hyper contracting and this, this is very typical with an Oop baby or yeah, baby that's facing the wrong direction. Your body is in your uterus is working so, so hard to try to help your baby to move down on and turn that you'll have these really, really long contractions that are really close together.

And really early labor. I mean, you may only be like one or two centimeters dilated whenever as a doula. I see early labor, meaning, you know, there's no bloody show. There's no mucous. Maybe if they've had a cervical exam, the cervix is, you know, it's still kind of thick and closed, but these long contractions are happening and they're really close together and they're very painful and the mom's having back pain.

This tells us your baby's not in a great position. And from a chiropractic standpoint, I'm imagining when you're in labor. It's very hard for you to then put your chiropractor hat on and say like, Oh, here's all the positions I should go in to try to flip my baby over. Well, there was no, there was no thought into that at all.

I was just, I was in labor land and I was just moaning into that mask, but I wasn't breathing in the nitrous, so it wasn't even helping me. So that was kind of useless. And my husband was there, but he was kind of terrified because. He has no idea what's going on. And did he adjust to you at all in labor?

No. I would not have wanted to know. Okay. To do that. Some people do, they have their chiropractor come to the hospital and we'll adjust them while they're in labor and it can actually really help. And some people want, you know, the touching, they want the compression of different areas. So they want massage or whatever.

I wanted no one to touch me. Yeah. That time or the second time. So I would not have wanted that your labor land was a no touch zone. It was a total, no touch, no touchy, everyone. So did he ever flip? He did. So we stayed in that position, but probably because I didn't move, I would imagine. So he stayed in that position and the C-section happened because just one thing led to another led to another.

They basically no one that overtly treated me badly. But I was a product of a system that just wants to intervene. Had they asked me to get up and move around. I was fine when I was moving around, I'd have a contraction and then I'd be out of it. And I was talking and laughing and moving around and it was fine.

And then I got into the bed, everything shifted. Had someone said you should get out of that. That I probably would have been. Okay. But. I didn't have the foresight to, at that point to say, this is why this is happening and I should get out. And then they just kept trying to ease my suffering by saying, Oh, maybe we should do this.

Maybe you should get an Ivy. I'd refuse. Three times the fourth. I'd say fine. Cause I was sick of them asking maybe we should give you an epidural. Now you could get some rest. No, no, no. Okay, fine. I'll have the epidural and the same thing. They broke my water. Then I was on a clock. You know, they tried to, we, I was dilated to 10 and, uh, you know, supposedly I should be pushing now and pushed for like four hours.

And I trusted my doctors because I had never done this or seen this before. And they asked if I wanted to see section multiple times. And eventually my doula actually had to leave because she was, um, she was with me for like a full day and she felt really bad, but she was, she was a solo practitioner.

She didn't, she wasn't part of a group. She didn't have a backup. And so. She laughed. And my husband was still there terrified, and eventually I agreed to go have the C-section and I think I tried to make the best of it, but it was really not good. I mean, I don't think anybody likes that. Wait a minute.

It's major abdominal surgery. The, you know, the healing is definitely longer. There's a lot of risks involved, you know, but sometimes it's also. In some cases, it's the only way your baby's going to come out to and can be the safest option. So it just really depends on, you know, person by person and case by case, but in your case, I'm thinking of all the things I would have done.

And I actually, I think this is a teachable moment because doulas aren't free. Not everyone listening to this. Podcast is going to be able to afford a doula. So I think that if you have anyone that's laboring with you, whether it's your husband, whether it's your wife, whether it's your partner, your best friend, your mom, your sister, whoever it is, whoever your birth partner is, needs to be trained in what is called spinning babies.

And it's spinning babies.com and it's just a really easy. Website with a bunch of different techniques to move your body. And so, you know, we can't go back in history and change your story, Sarah. But if someone's listening to this podcast and then, you know, next week they go into labor and they're having back labor and these long contractions, if your partner could just pull up spinning babies.com, there are so many different positions like exaggerated sideline, abdominal lifts.

There's this thing called the burrito roll where you kind of like. Lay the patient flat roll 'em up in a, in a sheet and kind of rock them back and forth or use a sheet or a ribose. So to kind of sift there, dips and wiggle, and it helps the baby to wiggle and it helps the baby to turn and flip. And so I just want to make sure that we use that as a teachable moment, right?

Like if you don't have a doula, but you do have a partner and you're listening to this podcast because you're preparing yourself for a great birthing experience, then spinning babies.com should be something that's. And everybody's back pocket. I should've just said get up. That was, that was the answer because none of it was working, laying down, just, I think his, his body was pressing so hard against my spine and all the things that he shouldn't have been pressing against.

The only thing that felt good was leaning over and getting him as far away. From my back as possible. Right. I was leaning over a countertop hands and knees. All of that was, was really good. And then laying in the bed was the complete opposite of that. So it was bad, but yes, that's definitely a lot of people he never turned to though.

So no matter all the things. He didn't turn and some in here's the thing I don't want to give false hope too. Sometimes they don't turn, right? Like sometimes they will come out. Oop, sometimes they're sh well, cord is wrapped around their body and they're just, it's not going to descend and they're not going to come down the street, you know?

And then sometimes they do figure it out. It just takes a very long time, you know, to kind of untangle themselves and wiggle their body millimeter by. By millimeter until they've, uh, descended and come down. So I hear your story though. And this is, this is a common story, right? Like one intervention leads to the next intervention leads to the next interventions and sometimes leads to a, this area and section I'm so curious how big your baby was.

He was eight pounds, two ounces, but he probably would have been less Hattie had all the fluid squeezed out of him. Right. Because you had been on IV fluids too, for so long. I was so unbelievably swollen. So definitely he weighed more. My second baby was like seven and a half. Okay. So I think he probably would have been about that.

He wasn't big and it wasn't that I couldn't have done it. It was that. They just, they can't step back and watch in us and like, and help the process along. Instead, they want to intervene because they think it's pathological. And so in every stage they're trying to do all these things that I didn't want.

And I was very clear about, but when you're in that, when you were labor land, you lose the ability. To think in that same logical way. And if you don't have somebody to advocate for you, sometimes they get to you. Like they got to me, he was, he was never in distress. I was never in distress. There was no medical need.

Jesse didn't want to wait anymore. Yeah, I do not believe that there is such thing as informed consent when you're in labor land, when mom comes in and her eyes are closed and she's in the middle of a contraction and you're having her sign a piece of paper that for her consent to an epidural, she hasn't read it.

And that the anesthesiologist and. Less than two seconds goes through the side effects and you're, and then the contraction ends and the mom's like, what just what's going on? And they're like, you're getting your epidural, sweetie, that you just consent to do. I would just like to put it out there. I don't, I personally don't believe there is such thing as informed consent.

Once you pass into active labor, while I'm in general, there is an informed consent for all kinds of things. Right. Nevermind. Just deeper who are in labor, but, but definitely not. When you're in labor, that shouldn't be a thing, right. You should be able to. In my opinion, go to your prenatal appointments. And these are the options we have for you.

Here are the pros. Here are the cons. Here are the risks. Here are the benefits. Here are the alternatives. You can review them. And so you're aware of now, if you come to the hospital and that's where you're having your baby, and you want an epidural, you know what you're choosing, we're going to take a short break to just share a few things with you.

Things for listening to the birth story podcast. I am so excited to announce the launch of my book. Birth story, a 42 week guide for your pregnancy, a collection of these birth stories, a ton of doula advice and journaling prompts. You can order a copy [email protected]. It also will mean the world. To me, it feels spread the word about this podcast.

So on Stitcher or on iTunes, just leave a review. Thanks. So you have, I have this beautiful boy and two years later, or I don't know when, but you, at some point, do you make a decision to get pregnant again or is next child is surprise or total? Total surprise, total surprise. Okay. He, my first he slept with us until he was about.

1615, 16 months. And then we finally got him to sleep in a crab. We just want a little more space and he would still come in and in the morning and nurse and stuff, but it was, it was time. Dad, dad wanted to sleep in the bed again because dad was sleeping in another room. Cause he was, the baby was a Thrasher.

So we finally got him out of the room and I got one cycle of my period back and didn't think I was, could get pregnant and. A few months go by. I thought it was just kind of regulating, cause it can be spotty or come at a different interval than normal when it's coming back. And, but I also noticed I was getting.

My pants weren't fitting as well. So I thought I needed to go to the gym. So I went to spin class when I was like working so hard. And then I came back and I was like, wait in a minute. Maybe, maybe it's not from like too much. It was like holiday time. Maybe I hadn't had too much food. And so I took an old pregnancy test that was expired, but they still work.

And, uh, definitely positive, very, very obviously positive. And. So wait until my husband got home and I said, go get yourself comfortable change into your pajamas. And he was like, why are you being so nice to me? Let me rub your feet. Right. Exactly. And I was like, so let me show you this test. And we got another one just to confirm.

And yeah, it was a total surprise. And I mean, we had wanted more kids, so it wasn't like we just, we just hadn't thought it would happen at that stage. So the second time I knew, I knew the moment I had. My first, but the second time couldn't go that way and that it was going to be completely different and that I needed it for me to be redeeming because I truly did believe that my body could do it.

And that it was everybody else saying that I couldn't, that led me to this. And, you know, even if they think that they're doing what's right in the moment and they think that they're helping you, you don't see them again. You don't see them for six weeks. And then you see them once. So they can clear you to have sex, which I think is totally rude or like ride a bike or whatever it is that you want to get back to.

And then they don't see you again ever. And you may pass their mental health screenings. I did. Nope. And I definitely had PTSD. There's no doubt about that. For me, anytime someone had a birth that went how I wanted, I just go right back to it. It was like, You know, I was traumatized by it. And so I knew I couldn't do that again.

So this time I said, how come I'm going to go, go to the OB office down the street because they take our insurance just to start off the pregnancy. Well, I look for a midwife. And so I started there. I said, I'm not having another C-section unless it's absolutely necessary. And the nurse practitioner I saw said, well, you know, the doctor might want to, if the baby is too big or blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, yeah. Okay, bye. So I left cause that's not really a thing. So I went and made my, I found a midwife, a home birth midwife, and she was really great. And we had, we only had one, we had a meet and greet with her and then we had one other appointment and then. It just ended up not really working out.

I decided it was those kind of far she's an hour away. And some other factors led me to say this. It just, it just wasn't right for me. And I tried to find somebody else to try to find another home birth midwife. And I really had a hard time. I couldn't find anyone. And I was really upset. And I said out loud to my husband, what do I have to do?

Deliver this baby myself? And it was like a light bulb went off and I was like, do people do that? Why couldn't I. And so I started doing a lot of research on, does this something that people do do people just decide to not have an attendant to decide to not go into the hospital and just have a baby themselves and turns out?

Yeah, there are quite a few people who do for a lot of different reasons, but many of them, for reasons like mine, Where they were mistreated in the hospital system. They know they're not going to be respected. They know they're not going to be trusted. They know they're not going to get their wishes met if they go into a hospital, no matter what hospital it is.

And they just don't want that experience because yes, what I survived probably would the baby survived probably, but what's my mental health going to be going forward for the rest of my life. And how's that going to affect me as a person, as a mother, as a life, as a health care provider. I just didn't want that for me.

So I said, I'm going to look more deeply into this. And I wasn't nervous at first because I didn't know all the ins and outs of how it would work out. But what I decided to do was research tons of research, anything that people would scary about uterine, rupture hemorrhage, anything like that, that they would say, you know, what, if something goes wrong, I researched everything.

What's the likelihood, true likelihood for me that any of those things are going to happen. If they do happen, what can I do? And then if I do need to go to the hospital, where are the emergency services in relation to me? So there's, there's an ambulance half a mile away, the hospital's 10 minutes. So I'm not in the middle of nowhere.

I knew that if I needed help, I could get help. And then I also have a background. In health. So there are a lot of things that I know that maybe the average person doesn't know and my husband too. So once I started really honoring myself with all that research and, and not just basing my decision on fear, I felt really empowered.

And I ended up going back to my OB and just continuing my care there because it was convenient. And. Didn't tell them what my plan was. And, you know, I just prepared myself and I kind of refused some things or did alternatives of some type fasting, which they, they thought I was nuts. No one's ever asked to do an alternative glucose screaming at this place.

And so I. That is so funny. We do them all the time here. You just eat like jelly beans or banana. I mean, there's, there's so many different recipes for the alternative to the orange drink with artificial dye flowing through it. Exactly. And there are a lot of different options, but I find that Massachusetts particularly is.

It's not like a Mecca of alternative health because they have so many hospitals and so much research and, you know, we're really good at a lot of that stuff out in Boston. So people tend to think that way more frequently. And if you are suggesting something different, Sort of like voodoo, even if it's common, elsewhere.

Right. What do you feel like would have happened if you would have shared with your OB GYN that you were planning on having an unassisted home birth? I have no idea. And that's why I didn't say anything because I had heard of other people, you know, it is, it is by no means an unsafe choice. If you know what choice you're making, because by, by lots of means.

Going back to the hospital and letting them do a routine C-section on me could be an unsafe choice. And so just because my choice would be different, doesn't mean it's unsafe, but they're considered the experts. And I heard have heard of other women who they called child protective services on them. And by no means, am I abusing anyone?

I'm actually trying to maintain having a physiological birth and do what's best for my kid based on my. Research and what's best for me, but I just, I didn't want to deal with it. That was, that was one of the main reasons I didn't want to be. Yeah. I didn't want to tell anyone and I didn't want to be in a hospital setting because I don't want to fight you.

This is what I want. This is what I'm going to have. And this is what's I guess, for me, and I don't care what you think is best because people are being abused every day in hospitals and. You know, we need to hire doulas to be there, to help us make choices and advocate for ourselves. And I think that that's, I love doulas because it's a very important profession, but I feel like it shouldn't even have to be a profession because it's true.

It's because it sucks that you have to now spend your own money, which you totally deserved by the way, because there's a ton of work, but that you have to spend your own money to have somebody come with you to make sure that you. Get what you want and that you're not abused. Like that just seems like an insane thing to me.

I just, I didn't want to fight anyone. I didn't want to have what happened last time, where I was slowly coerced and I just wanted to be left alone and I knew I could do it. And I knew that I'd be okay. So I didn't tell him. And I ended up quitting my OB practice at about 35 weeks. Our fridge was leaking all over the floor.

So I had to, I had to cancel an appointment and I just never made another one. Did they ever call you back or did they just not notice that you weren't in the practice anymore? They called me once left a message. Call me again, left a message that they were so worried about me. I was like, I walk into your practice and you legitimately have no idea what my name is still.

I was not concerned that they were actually concerned. Um, then they sent me an email and then they, you sent me a letter in the regular mail that was like, are these people gonna show up at my house? I was like, I got to go get my records before they do show up in my house. We'll say it makes me feel a little bit better though.

Like that they, they did notice that you were gone. I was wondering like, if you just didn't show up for any of your appointments, would anyone notice? And the answer is yes, they would notice. I think for the most part, they'd notice because I mean, as someone who has appointments for their patients, you notice when they don't show up, because there's a, there's a blank in your schedule.

So. They did, they did notice, but I feel like I, but it's a different type of practice than chiropractic, but at the same time, somebody leaves your practice for whatever harassing them is not what you think. I didn't get your two phone calls. Did you think I didn't get your email, but I'll get your snail mail.

Like. I'm an adult and I can make my own choices and whether it was because I moved out of state or because I just decided not to come anymore. You did your due diligence to let me know that you think I need an appointment. And now it's time to leave me alone because I can make my own choices, but I was afraid that they would continue to harass me.

And so I said, I was transferred my care. I went in and I got all my printout records and didn't tell them where I was transferring to. Cause it was me and then went home and. I will say it was the best because nobody was harassing me. Nobody was saying, Oh, if you get to this state, we might need to talk about induction or, you know, we only do, we'll only let you go.

Cause you can let me do anything until this day or whatever. There was no talk of that. I was relaxed. I was putting in a patio with my husband. I was like just doing my regular stuff. And I wasn't stressed out and I knew he would, um, when he came and I just kind of had a feeling he'd come a little bit early.

It was just a few days, but. I was right on, on that. I was going to say, so why don't you share with us? Oh, you knew your body was going into labor because on number one, you said you were in prodromal labor for many days. So how, what did it look like with number two when you had those early warning signs that, Oh, I think I might be going into labor share with us what that felt like or looked like for you.

Sure. So what the prodromal labor it was at night. It was only at night when they went to sleep and it was very consistent. Every five minutes or 10 minutes I'd have a contraction. And then it would stop when I got up basically, or like during the day hours anyway. And if I tried to sleep again, it would happen again with this, I woke up and it was a Friday morning and my husband had to go to work for mine.

And I started to have. Like some cramping, which I was like, Oh, I wonder if this has contractions and did my normal stuff. I had a two year old, we had to go to a trader Joe's. It was very important. We had to go get some food and I'm glad we did, because then we were stocked up weekends. We went to that, we went to trader Joe's and we went to the pet store and I was having contractions the whole time.

And by now I knew that this was real. It was, I was actually in labor and I'd have to stop and concentrate here and there, but it was manageable. And then I got in the car and I called my husband and I said, I think I'm in labor. And he said, do you think I should come home? And I said, nah, it's going to be a while.

So he, he came home at six 30, six, seven o'clock like, it usually does. And I labored all night. I was able to sleep though in between contractions. Uh, but my son woke up in the middle of the night and we would bring him into the bed. And my husband was so sleepy. He didn't even think about it. He just brought him into the bed and I was like, Seriously, I'm in labor.

Like I'd have to get up for my contractions and I'm like trying to rock and get into all fours and, you know, moan a little bit and get, just get through the contractions. And now I'm trying not to wake two people up. It's like you could have, I could have just gone into his room and left the bed to me.

But anyway, so I got through that and then the next morning just kind of carried on. It was still kind of early, but I was getting through it. And then by the early afternoon, It was starting to get more intense. And I will say one of the best things for me about being home was having my son there. He was so precious, like just, he would hold my hand through, we call belly squeezes and he was at a birth pool and I'd get in and out of it.

And he was putting water on my arms and. You know, he wasn't, he, he thought like it was normal. This is normally what you do. And I did watch some videos with him prior, so he was aware of kind of the sounds and like what would happen? Oh, it's so sweet. Now, if you're using belly squeezes, does that mean you?

Cause I'm just using, when we were talking, I'm just talking normal language, but that would tell me that you, maybe you were practicing a little bit more hypnobirthing. I actually, I had a hypnobirthing book that I read for my first, but totally forgot it by the second. So now other terms that are a little bit more positive than contraction or transition are using things like belly squeezes or belly hugs or surges or pressure waves.

So there are other ways in which we can alleviate some of the tension by using more positive language for birding. So you used belly squeezes. Yeah. I felt like that was a better descriptive term for two year old. And I think he kind of understood it better. So, but by around two o'clock in the afternoon, I didn't want anyone near me anymore.

I had to either be laying on my right side or standing as tall as I could leaning to the right for frequent traction. Why I'm not sure just to get them in the right position. And we decided, but we had a friend, two friends who were also chiropractors and they have a son a little bit younger than ours who said, they'd take him and they'd take them overnight, like saying God, because it would have been fine.

Had he been there, but it's just one more thing to do to, to care for him did. Now my husband's trying to pay attention to me if I need it anything. And it would just kind of was a lot, so. And towards the end, I was very loud and I think he might've woken up. So it was good that he was gone, but that allowed me to just kind of focus on me.

My husband got tons of cleaning, done clean. He did, he was nesting. Yeah. This was like, what do I do right now? Because he couldn't, he can't help me, you know, unless I ask for something, you just need to let me do my thing. And so he'd asked me every once in a while, If I wanted anything to eat or drink, or if I wanted anything and I ate like half a grilled cheese at some point and was making sure I was drinking and, you know, things, things progressed over the course of the day.

I just knew it was going to take awhile. And it, and it did, it took 38 hours. But towards the end, you know, it was, it was definitely difficult, but I think birth difficult regardless. And one of the reasons I was glad that I was home is because I didn't have, there was a stage where I said to my husband, This is why people have epidurals.

But I remember what it was like when I got an epidural, even though I was trapped in the bed, the pain was gone and I understood why people request them. But I also was glad that I wasn't in a place that I could get one because I may have been talked into it and where I was home. I knew that wasn't an option.

And I just, I kept hearing the quote, the Robert Frost quote, the only way out is through in my head. And it really helps me, like I knew there will be an end to this. You know, I just have to keep going and get through it. This isn't forever. And I was in and out of the pool and things were getting. Much more intense.

So you had a birthing pool? Yes, yes. Yeah, it was, it was very helpful. I didn't always want to be in there and I could tell at some stage that I think my contractions are slowing down as they sometimes do when you're in water. So I got myself out, even though that was like the last thing I wanted to do, I was like, I can either get out in this camp and we can get on with this, or I can stay in here and be more comfortable.

So I was in, out of the pool and dancing a little bit and laying down and sleeping between contractions a little bit. And then. He was born at 11:00 PM. I didn't push that on the second night. You're a second baby. You still had a very long, you had a long period of early labor and then it sounds like maybe seven or eight hours.

It sounds like to me of active labor, probably. I wasn't paying too. I wasn't paying attention at all. I just know what time, what time my son left. And so if it was somehow around that time, then my husband was paying attention a little bit more than I was, but still 11:00 PM. He emerges. And was he born in the water?

Where was he born? Where were you in your home? Yes, he was born on the water. I didn't push it all. I had fetal ejection reflex, which can happen if you're having an undisturbed birth. And, um, he just flew out to contractions. He flew out into the water and my husband had no idea what was going on. Cause I was just, I was on all fours and squeezing his hands as hard as I could.

And I forgot to cut my nails. So I felt bad about that, but also not too bad because what I was experiencing was worse and his head came out with one. And I, my body just made me pant through it until he, and then this next contraction, he just flew out and I felt this jumble of arms and legs come out into the water.

And I turned over and I picked him up and put them on my chest and he knows McBride. He, I think he had his smooth transition. So he. Didn't need to cry and, but I made sure he was breathing. I made sure I didn't need to suction him. I made sure I kept him warm and made sure that I was okay. And then waited for the placenta to come out on its own and it took about an hour.

So that's another thing that would have been managed at a hospital. Had I been in a hospital, they would have maybe waited 30 minutes. And then basically forced me to have Pitocin or to have for them to help manually remove it. So the placenta came out on its own. And then, so it'd been about an hour and now the cord was white and flacid, and he had gotten all his blood from the placenta.

And so we, um, tied off the core and I had made some basically friendship bracelets. That we tied off the quarter with, and then cut the cord and wiped him up a little bit. So he wasn't black and my husband held him and kept him warm while I went and took a shower because I had been sitting in that pool of like my own self dude.

Did you do anything to help your uterus to contract? Like, did you naturally massage, you know, your belly or anything like that or, or nerves? Jimmy during one of the placenta after the pluses, I meant after the placenta came out. Yeah. I noticed a few videos that I've watched. I've seen women that just sort of naturally will massage their abdomen or start nursing their baby.

And that helps the uterus to contract so that the bleeding is minimalized. Right. I, I didn't nurse because I wasn't thinking and I totally should have. I think I bled. I didn't have bridge, but I bled a little bit more than maybe I would have had I nursed him. I did have some herbs on hand that were said to help the uterus contract down so that the bleeding is minimal.

And so I took the herbs. I went and took a shower. I came back down and then a nurse him. So he nursed within an hour, I would say, but it wasn't, it wasn't immediate. I should have done it immediately because definitely it does help. And I I've heard that. You can tell the difference between as you're having one, two, three, four kids.

The contractions, when you're nurse are actually stronger. And I definitely noticed that with this one. So that, that definitely helped. And I, I healed really well, but how wonderful to, to be able to just take a shower right away and, you know, and then get all cozy and snuggle up in your home with your baby and nurse for the first time it was, it was so nice and it was, my husband made some chicken broccoli, Alfredo we ate and we all went to bed.

And it was like wonderful. It was, it was so nice and it was cozy. And then we took him to the pediatrician on Monday. That was a Saturday night. And he was fine. He didn't need anything, but just so that no one was thinking that I was negligent and wanted to have something, something on the road. And then do you just go down to the magistrate's office to do a birth certificate?

Yeah. So then you have to take some information down and you go down to our town hall. Here, same thing. And they had no idea what was going on because I'm sure no one's ever done that before. Did anyone write a news article about you, Sarah? No, they would, if he had been born accidentally in a car, but if I chose to have him at home that way it's.

W w no one does that. Well, story is very inspiring. It sounds very empowering. As you told your first story, it could still feel and hear that tension that is inside of you. Like a little bit of that PTSD about the experience. That you went through and, you know, I'm just very proud of you for evaluating your options and knowing that you are in charge of your body and your life.

And that this type of birth was what was right for you and your baby and your body and your partner in that moment. And so that's what you chose and here you are. And so. I want you to talk a little bit about like, after you, your second son in this way, you know, where you are in control, it was, you know, unassisted where you tapped into your, you know, maternal powers and then you started the autonomous birth project.

Could you talk a little bit about that? Yes. So having had both of those experiences and along the way, just of I've always been interested in birth. And I thought about going to school too, be a nurse midwife before going to chiropractic school. So I've always been paying attention when. I see people have babies or hear their birth stories.

And they were just all so negative. It was very rare that someone had a positive one. And so after the second experience, I saw one more, very healthy young friend, end up with a C-section, which I didn't hear the story of, but I'm pretty sure based on what I know that she was induced and. Eventually that led to have a C-section, which they claimed was an emergency, which maybe it was because of what they gave her, who knows.

But I was like, that's it. I got to do something. I don't know what that something is, but I need to help people because this is happening to almost everyone. Like not just the C-section, but their knowledge of birth and what's normal and what's necessary. And what they're capable of is just not there. And they're trusting everybody in the hospital to, to tell them what to do.

And they, there just needs to be more information out there. And so I started the autonomous birth project. It's a private group on Facebook. You just invited people that I knew and they eventually invited some more people and it's kind of grown and it was, it's a place for me to kind of gather information.

So I do a lot of polling to see what people's experiences have been, do some quizzes to see if people know certain things. I post articles and information. I do research on, you know, different research that's been done or read the articles. And then I kind of compile the information. And so I did that for about a year before I decided to create a difference.

What kind of side business out of that called birth uprising, which I haven't completely finished working on because I have two children. So it's very, it can be very difficult, which I stay home with, but I started an Instagram account where I've taken some of that information and put it there so that not just the people that I know or the people they've invited can see it, it can be anybody.

And what is the handle for that Instagram? Is it just birth uprising altogether? Yes. Okay. Yes. So birth uprising all together. So if anyone's listening to this podcast and you're interested in following Sarah or learning more about autonomous birding or unassisted birth, then you can absolutely ask to join the private Facebook community that will be vetted through Sarah and mentioned that you.

Heard her on the birth story podcast. And then you can of course follow birth uprising. Also a few episodes back, Sarah, I interviewed Emily Graham who did the documentary. These are my hours. Again, just, there are more and more resources coming available for women to learn about alternative ways of birthing, other than at a hospital or at home with a midwife.

And so it's also important for some of the information that I give is not necessarily just home birth or alternative birth related it's it's information for you to make the best choices. Like if you decide to get an epidural, what's in it, you know, did anyone tell you, and it's likely that they didn't give you all that information and that you don't have true informed consent because you can't consent to something when you're not given all the information.

And so it's. It's a place for people to see this information and say, maybe I should ask more questions. Maybe I want an alternative. You know, what, what is it for me? I didn't even know that wasn't right. For me, until someone told me there was a choice. Yep. And that was absolutely the vision for this podcast.

And so anyone who's been listening for a while, I try to do a really good job of interviewing women with all different types of birthing experiences. Those who plan to go to the hospice. Hospital and have an epidural, those who plan to have a home birth, those who plan to have an unassisted birth, those who planned to have a natural birth and then ended up in a Syrian section or, you know, all of the different ways, but by interviewing women like you, Sarah, and you know, all of the episodes that have been published.

Published before the point of this podcast is for whoever's listening to become informed, to, to become educated. And at the end of their birthing time that they knew that there was all of these different options and resources or what it was like to go into labor and then be empowered to advocate for themselves.

And so. You're just one more piece in this puzzle today of health, me to provide free education for all of our listeners so that women can find their voice. And so I really appreciate having you on today. We have just a couple more minutes and I end every podcast with talking about your favorite baby product.

So as a mom to two boys that are three and one, okay. Please share with us what has been your favorite baby product? So I would say my favorite has been some genius clock diapers with my first, I was really super overwhelmed, as you can imagine. And with the PTSD and being a new mom and then being home as opposed to working like I was so I, I had the cloth diapers, but I wasn't ready to commit because I was afraid of how much work it would be.

And then what, the second we did disposable for a little bit, but eventually went into the cloth and now I wish I had done it the whole time, because it is more laundry, but. They're great. We were throwing away, you know, too big when both kids were in diapers, two bags of diapers a week. Like it was just, it was so much waste and it's a lot of money too.

And so I had gotten some secondhand from, uh, from a couple of friends of mine and they've been wonderful. It's very rare that we've had some kind of an accident of some kind they're easy to use. Uh, they're cute. Cause they're a bunch of different colors and I like the snap covers. Yeah. Yeah. The snaps. So they can't get them off.

I've heard the Velcro sometimes can wear in the washer, but the snaps have been really good and they're really padded. So when they're learning to walk and they fall, they have something to land on their butt. So overall it's been, I just wish I had done it from the start. I feel like if you have access to a washer and dryer and you're not, you know, charging to the laundromat, It's it's a good affordable earth friendly option.

So I'm glad that we, we did them and we still do and will continue until. Everybody's out of diapers. Yes. I would like to encourage as many people as possible to reduce waste and help give that soft goodness to your babies bummed by cloth diapering. So we will link to bum genius clock diapers in the show notes.

Sarah, thank you so much for sharing today, and I hope that everyone will connect with you on Instagram and Facebook. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Thank you for listening to birth story, Michael, if you will walk away from each episode with a clear picture of how labor and delivery might go and that you will feel empowered by the end of your pregnancy to speak up plan and prepare for the birth you want, no matter what that looks like.