44 Why are Black Women Dying in Childbirth at a Rate 3-4X Greater Than White Women?

In honor of the death of George Floyd and every other black man, transgender person, and every individual that has lost their lives brutality at the hands of those who have hate, fear, racism, and white supremacy power pulsing through their knuckles, I replay this episode.  Because just as black men are dying at the hands of the police that should be protecting them, black women are dying at the hands of their healthcare providers that are supposed to be helping birth their children. Are you ready to hear this? Black women are 3-4 times more likely to die than white women in childbirth in the US. Fact.  Listen in as I use my platform to elevate the voice of Cindy who lost her child because she was not HEARD. She was not HEARD because she is black.  We protest and march peacefully, and we flood the airways with TRUTH.  Thank you for learning with me. 

TRANSCRIPTION

Thank you for listening to episode 44, which is a replay of episode 13, and I'm replaying it because y'all, I'm so white and I am actively on learning, having conversations, re learning about real history about real. Institutional racism and the same conversation that we're having across America right now in the state of the world with all the protests.

And this time the black man's name was George Lloyd. It has been thousands of names that are dying at the hands of the people that we should trust. This episode is about black women that are dying at the hands of healthcare providers in childbirth, where 60% of the deaths have been deemed preventable.

And because they are black. And only because they are black, they are three to four times more likely to die in childbirth than white women. And we cannot be quiet any longer. And so this episode is being replayed and it will be continued to be replayed. As I use my platform to share my voice, to elevate the voices of those that are not being heard, because it is not okay.

That black women are dying in childbirth.

What does a contraction feel like? How do I know if I'm in labor and what does the day of labor look like? Wait, is this normal? Hey, I'm Heidi. My best friends call me hides. I'm a certified birth doula host of this podcast and author of birth story and interactive pregnancy guidebook. I have supported hundreds of women through their labor and deliveries, and I believe every one of them.

And you deserves a microphone and a stage. So here we are, listen each week to get answers to these tough questions. Birth story, where we talk about pregnancy labor deliveries, where we tell our stories and share our feelings and of course chat about our favorite baby products and motherhood. And because I'm passionate about birth outcomes, you will hear from some of the top experts in labor and delivery, whether you are pregnant, trying desperately to get pregnant.

Or you just love a good birth story. I hope you will stick around and be part of this birth story family. Thank you for listening to the birth story podcast. If you are tuning in for the first time, I want to encourage you to start at the beginning. I want you to go on a journey with me and allow me to be your virtual doula and teach you.

All the things along the way. So I'm just going to give you a couple of highlights as some of the earlier podcast episodes. If you are just now tuning en so very first episode, episode one, you can learn all about me, who I am, why I became a doula, why it is I do what I do and also my very own birth story with myself.

Second child Jagger, then I've interviewed some really cool CEOs. So episode three, Tori Jones is the CEO of  triangle and she was also featured on Rachel Hollis's. The rise podcast. Episode seven was Rachel Coley, the CEO of Kandoo kiddo. She was just on good morning America. She's an incredible occupational therapist that teaches you how to play with your baby in her.

First stories are incredible. Episode 10 was one of my best friends, Amy, a VBAC in the car. We have done episodes on micro preemies episode, 1821 on international adoption out of Uganda. 24 and 25. Oh, those episodes like get a box of tissues. They're on Seragusi and cancer. We've addressed hypnobirthing, fertility, really easy, joyful, a medicated birds, really hard, long labor, medicated, unmedicated, everything in between.

So I hope you'll start at the beginning. Let the birth story podcast take you on a journey. All the way through and enjoy this episode and then remembered a rewind all the way back to episode one. Thanks for tuning in. Hi, it's Heidi. Welcome to the birth story podcast. Episode 13. I'm so glad that you're listening because this week is black maternal health awareness week, and I've traveled to Asheville, North Carolina to record with Maggie and Sandy from MAHEC mountain area health education center there, and mothering, Asheville and sisters caring for sisters.

You will hear from these two, two incredibly inspiring women who are leaders in this community fighting innovatively. To change the disparity of maternal and infant mortality rates between black and white women. I'm recording today to learn, to open my eyes, to reach out across this Canyon and to share that the change must occur.

If you are a black woman in the United States. With an advanced degree, you are three to four times more likely to die in childbirth than a white woman with less than an eighth grade education. Let that sink in. I did not say that pregnant black moms are more likely to get enough at all. Sadly, you heard me correctly.

Beautiful black pregnant women bursting with life are more likely to die. We are here to talk about why. And what can and must be done to erase the statistic and to save lives. So Cindy and Maddie, thank you for joining me today. We're excited to hear quickly introduce yourselves, and then I'm going to get into a little bit of the numbers.

Okay. Um, my name is Cindy McMillan. I am a donut certified birth doula. I'm also the mass chain childbirth educator. A breastfeeding peer counselor, and the director of marketing and education for sisters, Kansas sisters, the community based doula program. Yeah. And I'm Maggie Adams and I'm the project manager for mothering Asheville, which is a movement here to address the black, white disparity, um, particularly in infant mortality.

But, but also I need to turn on mortality, which just is canning. So it's just, it's just a part of. Cindy, we didn't talk about this, but I certified with donut also back in 2008. So we have the same certifying body. Awesome. So before we dig in with Cindy and Maggie, I just want to go over some of the statistics that many of the listeners may not be aware of.

Um, I'll be honest, when I did the research for this interview, some of this was very new and startling to me, and that's why we're doing this. So in the United States, Um, we are one of only 13 countries in the world where the maternal death rate is worse than it was 25 years ago. Only 4% of physicians are black.

900 women are dying each year in childbirth in the United States, and yet 60% of those deaths have been deemed preventable overall in the U S the maternal mortality rate is 28.7 deaths per 100,000. Now that drives me crazy when I read that, because if you break it down, black women comprise 40 per 100,000 compared to 12.4 per 100,000 deaths in wake women.

So it's really unfair that we lump those numbers together because it doesn't tell the true story. And we're doing this interview today to try to shed light on the true story. And then also the next worst country in the world from maternal mortality is New Zealand and their death rate is three times lower than the United States at 11.9 per 100,000.

Yeah. So here we are. We're going to shed light. We're going to raise awareness. We're going to pave the way for passion for maybe other municipalities in the country that are looking to do what it is that you guys are doing here. And, um, we have so much to learn from you guys. So, yeah, let's do it. So, uh, Cindy, yes.

Let's start with you. Okay. Are you interested in sharing your birth story? Um, Hmm. Well, I had some very unique birth stories, I would say for myself because I was, I was young. Um, I had my first daughter when I was 20. And I'm almost died while pregnant with her. Um, that was when they didn't quite know, 97.

I agree. And this was, and there was just, it was horrible that wasn't my only natural birth. And then my second son, five years later, I got pregnant with twins. And, um, I remember I kept telling the doctors that I was in, I to think I was like maybe four months and I kept stressing to them that, yeah, no, I think I'm having more than one baby in here.

That's more than one. And it got to know, we saw only one baby, but only saw one baby. So around my, my seventh and a half month, they realized I was actually having twins. And one of my twins had a heart defect. So they was trying to work diligently then to try to see what, what they can do, um, in each role.

But it wasn't, I think I can do a set up, but then we go ahead and have the time. And, um, I stayed in the hospital for about a month before. Got, would actually do the delivery. I went under general anesthesia. And my delivery. And, um, when I came to, I remember my bed just being wet, soaking wet, and it was so much blood everywhere.

And I remember trying to talk and I was telling the nurses and, you know, screaming for my husband at the time. And, um, I just kept bleeding. The doctor came in and I never forget. She was like, you need to stop bleeding or you're not going to make it. So in my mind, I was like, what am I doing? And make myself bleed.

So I kind of just relax myself while they do what they have to do. I was preparing myself to die on it. In that bed. That's all I kept thinking was like, I hope my, my sons are okay. I hadn't had not had a chance to see them yet or anything. And, um, luckily I made it through that, but the hard part was the hospital taking my S my son that had the heart defense.

And, um, if we're transfusion on him, when he didn't need it, And my other son, who's actually here as that's alive. Um, he needed a blood transfusion, but they didn't give it to him. And no matter what I said and what I did it, I need a court to take us, see my son and gave him the blood transfusion and within.

Say three or four days he was dead. So that was my trust of the healthcare system at that point. Yeah, because I was like, they wouldn't listen to me. They wouldn't listen to me know. Um, I almost died and then my son had the, to sacrifice because the doctor was not listening to me, me because I knew my bloodline, my blood estery.

I know my mother had like cotton clotting. Deficiencies. I know that there was, my sister had passed away from bleeding disorders instead of them doing the research and the homework, like I was asking them to, they didn't. So, so that was, that was the drive to the work. I'm doing right now, you know, I found out about a profession that actually supports women and are there to be the extra ear and really be there to be by their side.

I was so. Because that, wasn't what I had experienced. Even with my husband being there, or he didn't know what was going on. He didn't know how to support time. And he wasn't trying to, I respect my wishes, which were, if something happens, this is what I want you to do. Who knows? No, that was respected on his end because he was in his feelings.

Yeah. But a doula is totally different. She has no judgment. She's, she's letting you experience this person your way. Um, things may go wrong and I understand that, uh, but it's always better to have somebody there that understanding and empathizing with you along the way, when you were pregnant and you were preparing for your birth.

First of all, I have a million things to say about, I'm sorry that they didn't listen to you. And I'm sorry that they didn't hear you when you know your body, you knew there were two babies and there, and they didn't discover that until. I seven. I mean, that's just unbelievable to me that seven months, a seven and a half months.

So I'm sorry to hear her story. And we, as doulas are fighting to advocate for our moms the back then, did you, did you, had you ever heard of a doula, did you think to have like a. Like someone besides them, you know, your partner to be there. Um, No, no. I never knew what a doula was. You know, we hear stories about my grandmother, she delivered at home, you know, so you've never heard about somebody support me.

You heard about your grandmother's mother being there to deliver the baby or, you know, all those. The real deal, real deal is a thing. Um, well this is what a woman has to go through. What she starts bearing chosen. You, you kind of just deal with it. Nobody at that time was preparing you for the emotional things that you was going to go through.

All the changes, all the physical changes, the emotional changes that, I mean, When you compile that labor in pregnancy top of a past, whether it's good or bad a lot. Yeah. It's a lot of stress there. Um, and most black women, including myself, didn't have a very rosy past. So not only was I. Pregnant now, but I was also traumatized as a kid in different areas of life.

How so? Like sexual abuse. Um, I've been there in rape in there. So when it came down to them, literally, I was worried about my body image elsewhere about how am I going to react to touch? I was worried about, um, lights or male doctor, female doctor. I was just, is someone going to take advantage is I was just so.

Concerned about the things that past history. I wasn't sure in protecting my kids. I will never let anybody hurt my kid in it. Like I was hurt or I would, I would never let anybody, you know, my whole framework in my mind was different. If I had somebody there to talk to, I could have relieved some of that and been more, yeah.

You know, I'm going to interject right there because. We're going to get to this, I guess, with you. But I want to say that with the clients that I've worked with over the 15 years, that I've been a doula, that the trauma piece is like the biggest piece in mind, world to birth outcome. Yeah. I have plenty of moms that call me and say, I really want to have a natural childbirth and then we start digging into it.

And I find out that they have been.

Getting raped, sexually abused, have big traumas. And one of the things as a doula that we have to teach and train is that childbirth is very difficult and it will get you to your core and all of your things. Coming out. Yes. All the things that we talk about, and we're going to talk about today with labor and delivery.

One of the pieces, I think that's hidden is what we bring to birth. When those contractions start and you are forced inside yourself. You're going to face some things that you maybe didn't want to face. And those are one that's probably another one topic for another day, but it's outcomes related to past trauma.

And then that, or that leads you. So you had so many things. You had trauma, you had a baby at home already. Now you're pregnant again with a medical community. That's not listening to you. And then I'm sorry that your baby died. Yeah. And it was both, it was, it was rough. And I don't, I don't want another mom to ever have to experience it.

My health care profession. No, not listening to them. You know, I always, I was looking at them as they're practicing medicine. There's always a bedside manner. Sometimes you got to listen to who you're taking care of. They know their body way better than anybody. You know what I'm saying? I think in the, in the black community, I had never, I had high blood pressure before, but I'm CA I blood pressure when I was pregnant and all that stress.

Oh, that's just, and that was my third pregnancy when my son and I did, I got high blood pressure really bad. And then I started thinking I'm okay, this time doing this, I, everybody else has this lovely pregnancy and lovely, you know, they can be being in pregnant and eat what they want to eat. And here I am just so full of stress, my blood pressure shooting up the roof, I'm getting headaches and that's yes, fluid.

And then Nicole calls. Sarah and you know, and you don't be one that either, but then you understand on one hand, this has to happen because your blood pressure doulas, we help alleviate some of that stress. Yeah. Wait on us. We hold that space. I love that. I love that, you know, you don't have people out there that do that.

So I'm like, where was doula? 97. It wasn't a, my neighbor, the first bird hag tinted was 2000 and then five. And I didn't, I'd never heard of a doula either, but I had a friend and she said, Just come be with me. I need someone with me for this birth and can support me. And I walked out of that delivery. I thought my whole world just changed.

And my sister said you were her doula. And I said, what, what is it doula? So know, help me transition to bring Maggie. And because you told me when you were pregnant, you didn't know what to do with, it was, I didn't know what to do with it, but now here we are to do a lesson. So how does that inter Maggie?

Yeah, so, so, um, I didn't know what a doula was five years ago either. Um, so this work that embarked, whereas this was canned for sisters was born, um, started about four and a half years ago with a grant to the blue cross blue shield foundation and, um, of North Carolina blue cross blue shield of North Carolina foundation.

And it was, um, a grant that came out called the community centered health home. And it was based off a model that the prevention Institute I had come out with, um, that really said there's factors outside of the healthcare system that are contributing to health inequities and health disparities. Um, and so at that time, um, I was working at MAHEC, um, and MAHEC of OB GYN.

Um,  we had no idea what we were going to do with it. Um, it was one of the first times, um, that we started thinking about like, Hey, let's do this a little bit differently. And so when we first started doing this work, we had no idea that we were going to be focusing on black, white disparity, or I've learned recently where we really want to be calling it and then not equity because disparity is, is just a difference where an inadequate in that equity is preventable.

I just, um, so that's one of the things in language that we're trying to, to shift a little bit. But when we, um, started this grant, well, we wanted to do was start building trust and relationship and community. How much money did you get from blue cross blue shield, $125,000 and free. Autonomy to do whatever you want with the money.

Me, but for the most part, yeah, it was, um, it was like, we don't know what to do. We want you guys to teach us how to do it and tell us, you know, what you're figuring out and, um, and how you do that. And the motto really says that like, uh, the idea is that. There's three things that you really have to be doing simultaneously too improve outcomes.

And I say, you have to build community capacity. You have to make a clinical shift and you have to address the policy and the environment where people live, work and play. And so, uh, what happened was that he had started two groups, um, one group, which was in his studio apartments, which is a public housing neighborhood here in Nashville.

North Carolina in Asheville public housing is, is primarily occupied by black people here in this city. Which is due to, um, historical trauma and institutional racism. Uh, a lot of that started in the, in the seventies with urban renewal and just kind of continue to transfer on and on and on, um, in this city.

And in Asheville today stands as you know, the second most gentrified city in the United States. Our black community has continued to lessen and lessen every year. We are same as, as public health people and not really understanding, you know, all of the context. We're also the white women that are like, okay, we're going to go try and build a trust and a community with black women don't really know what that's going to be life.

So let me stop. Right? Yeah. Does that mean that everyone that was working on the grant was white? At that point. Yes. Yeah. Which is pretty typical. Most of the times as white folks love to write grants, to go into black communities and fix them. That's that is literally the pattern that we have seen for so long.

So it's, you know, I laugh about it. It's really messed up. That is what is done over and over and over again to black communities. And like, no wonder why there's no trust. You know what no wonder why the black community doesn't trust the white community. Doesn't trust the health care community. Like we, we just come in and we're like, Oh, where, why we're going to fix this.

We know how to do it, but we didn't know anything about you. We don't know what it's like to be a black person living in America. We don't understand what it's like to be disenfranchised and have everything taken away, but we know how to fix you. So I'm going to interrupt right there. So let's, let's answer that question.

That's answered that question. So Cindy, you are a doula, you are black, you were in this community, you know what it's like? So let's answer, Maggie's question that she's putting out there. What, what is it like for, we just heard your story, but also the stories of the women that you're serving right now through this program.

Which I guess we don't get to in a minute how you're doing that, but tell me about who they are, how they feel about healthcare, how they feel about hospitals, how they feel about their pregnancies. Now we're going to take a short break to just share a few things with you and we'll be right back with our guests.

I am so excited to tell you about my first book that I wrote that is launching this summer. It's a 42 week guide to your pregnancy. It's a collection of birth stories. It has a ton of doula advice from all of the questions that my clients have asked me over the last 14 years. It has hysterical partner tips that you will want to read to your partner.

And it has journaling prompts because nobody has time to write a 20 pages in their journal about their pregnancy. So I've taken the Liberty to give you some prompts of things that I think you might want to remember member back on after the baby's born. So again, you can go to birth story.com and preorder a copy today, and it would mean the world to me.

Hey guys, if you're enjoying this podcast, then I need your help to spread the word. If you know anyone who is pregnant is trying to become pregnant or just loves a good birth story. If you could send them to iTunes or Stitcher. Or Spotify or SoundCloud wherever they listen to their podcasts and ask them to subscribe to the birth story podcast.

Well, it's sad, but Maggie is it's hitting the nail on the head. She's absolutely correct. And even now it's. There's no trust. There's no trust. I mean, if it wasn't for the fact that Maddie and the other ladies that did come to Becka view and actually genuinely. Wanting to build a relationship without knowing, knowing the background noise without, um, I mean, they were take your time, rain, sunshine.

We sit at a picnic table and they would generally hear us out instead of us coming in and saying, well, we're bringing this to the community. It was not an app we came up with. They gave us the freedom to come up with ideas and freedom to empower deal. They. They gave us the tools to actually empower ourselves because, um, certain things that they knew about that was going on within the community didn't reach our community.

So once they started saying, well, we have an invitation here, would you guys like to show up? And we're like, okay. You know, getting something. Some more information. And once we heard on top of each one of our schools, all of us, we have, um, adverse grade stories, some just unsupported, um, went to a conference and heard about the infant mortality rate here in Baldwin County.

And it sends us into like, A rage. We were so upset was so hurt because in our minds, for years after we had our kids, I always thought that the government was trying to kill us. The healthcare system was trying to kill us. Um, why, why is there so much unfair treatment with black women versus white women?

If this was a, I would say it wasn't black, my son was still be here. If I wasn't black, I wouldn't have bled. Like I did on that table. They would have been there to take care of me. Things would have been explained differently. You know, I couldn't approve that for a fact. I couldn't say that for a fact. I just know how I felt, but now as a doula, I actually can see it.

So I wasn't wrong now. It's like, You're watching it in action or why, why would a healthcare provider get into a field where he cannot adequately equitably treat every woman, child person the same? Why would you take on the role of being in charge of someone's life when you can't do it equitable? So then I started thinking in another way of money talks.

So we're pawns. Our bodies are cons. Our kids are pawns in a money exchange. Can't do that, but this would've solved to Nick is coming down to on top of where black, we hold no value in the world and it shouldn't be like that. But I feel that so injustice, so ingest, you know, I, our moms love our children just the same as any other mom.

Our moms sacrifice for their children. Just like any other mom, once you get pregnant, you can't go back. You know, I see them fighting for abortion rights and an abortionist and abortion. That, what do you think about a mom who was pregnant and loses her child? What about a mom who was pregnant and loses her life?

That should be held on a higher pedestal than someone who's saying. I can't do this right now. Right? What about the ones that's doing that right now? You can't. Fight for a pro to be pro life and to save lives. If you're not gonna to, I support those lives. I drove. Right. Which I think has also like, I mean, why you see a lot when there was likely a contention over the women's March and it was like that this is a white women.

Trade, because a lot of that idea is like, especially as white liberals, oftentimes we have these ideas about, you know, how the last thing we are and how we're doing all this work for women's rights without looking at the intersectionality, how much privilege we actually have as was white women versus.

The privilege that a black woman does not have the same boss. Right. And so that's like, what we're seeing so much of right is, is that we are getting to this point where like, not understanding that like literally Justin, as much as like we're seeing like no black people shot and killed black babies are dying and black moms are dying because of the healthcare system.

It's the same thing. Same thing. That's so interesting that you say that, and I'm going to say something I'm probably comments way everyone, but how much privilege a white woman has? Who's straight. Who's married to a white man. Whether we want to believe it or not. We get more power and more privilege when we marry a white man.

Yeah. So let's go back to how Maggie and Cindy's are connected to have helped, you know, what a dual is and to become a doula. Um, so looking at our women because you know what I'm saying, we birth children, we populate, you know, so, you know, they always say, which came first, the chicken or the egg, you know?

So we, we are, should get part of society, whether you black, white, green, purple. It doesn't matter why the inequitable treatment. I mean, we're 2019. This is a whole nother generation. This is a whole nother, I mean, we're actually at a place where we should be having each other's back. We supposed to be supporting each other, looking out for each other, um, and to have, uh, uh, racism plays such a big role in healthcare.

That's scary. That's scary and sad. It's hugely scary. So even as part of MAHEC and the screen and this initiative, what do you see? You put doulas in place? You haven't been so creative and so novel and creating a system for change. But what were you seeing? What are you seeing? You mentioned three pillars earlier.

So I want to first start by saying like that doulas are actually a food show is the ladies that are the doulas now without any influence from us, people chose and said, this is the solution that we have decided that we are. We chose that when you went into the community, And you said I have no agenda.

Let's talk. For a year and a half for a year, a year and a half before we did it. No, this is the way we're going to do it. It's how do you want to do it? What solution does this community need? Cindy and your peers that. We need women supporting women during their pregnancy, during their labor, during their delivery and their postpartum care.

We need a, what a black woman supporting a black woman through their healthcare in your community. How many black OB GYN are there? I haven't seen any. Okay. I haven't seen any. And you know what? We have women asking from one all the time. And we can't produce the money, but they look, they love our support.

I mean, I mean, they love our support and we asked for, we haven't seen black nurses either. So up til recently, you know what I'm saying? So it's a little change at a time, but it's gone. So where did the term doula kind of surface. And when you're having these community conversations somewhat right.

Melissa Baker, like their friends, amazing woman. I came a wood deck and she got all her, you know, she told us she wasn't fighting game of war that to the table. This is our first time it's actually sitting down with . So who was Kane tell everybody

we met. Well, we met her at a spotty event. We had four, um, the picnic table will know, he's decided to do a mother's day event for the women and, and that's good for you. And they get a destressor, you know, and Kayla came and she tabled. One of the events we have massages and I keep puncture and food and it was just relaxing candles.

And, um, she ended up coming to the picnic table and we didn't know at the time that came up, wasn't doula. She had her own doula company and what's the name of her company? Homegrown. Oh, grand babies. And she's here out of hash house here. Okay. And she came to the table and we mentioned all the things we really wanted to do after it was angry.

She was like, I have a skill. I would like to teach you ladies, if you would, if you were willing to learn. And it was like, okay, you know, I lost the scaling was where I'm like screaming and jumping for July. She was like doula. It was the first time we actually heard the word. Now we were speaking support and this and that for women and black women or, you know, health disparities, infants dying, you know, and when she said doula and explain what to do.

Oh yes. Oh yeah. I mean, you have a fancy word for a woman caregiver, so was all excited. It was like, You to learn what this job, tell them. Ah, he has a job with a certification. You know, I have to be certified in something that can actually benefit our community. Um, and we started the training in November, 2016.

And we were so excited. It was after we started learning it. We didn't want to stop learning and we haven't stopped learning each, each year has been. So the training came from Kima and homegrown babies and our grant

So, so we decided we wanted to do stuff and do things differently. And a lot of that came from understanding the historical context of how black people in Asheville had been historically dis disenfranchise over and over again. And so, so that's why we were like, okay, we're going to take a step back.

We're not going to come with a solution. You want to first build a relationship. We want to understand what's going on in perspective of people that actually are living. The experience that, that we think we understand, and our healthcare providers that have been involved with us from the beginning can talk to that much about it.

I can feel like this preconceived notion of like all the reasons that black women and black babies are dying without even thinking about the historical context because of racism. And so when we talk links and he's talking about like racism today, That's when they like a product of hundreds of years of racism and slavery and Jim Crow or sterilization, right.

Black women up until recently, black bodies have been used and abused over and over again by white people. And if we didn't have that in historical context, I think we wouldn't have any evil. So you kind of take that step back. And so that's been an important part of our work is having that whole knowledge.

And so when the ladies had this thought day, which they were, this is what we want to do stresses. What's one of the biggest factors that, like we say, we want to give people a chance to just relax. We said, okay. And when they said, you know, we want these doula training. That's the whole idea, right? It was alright.

You have a solution. We have the money. We have the resources. Yes. Let's make that happen. Then doulas associates, caring for sisters. I was born and birth through these ladies. And so, so that's where. Kind of the story. So creative, innovative and blessing. Empowering. Thank you. May heck with you guys for, for just not being another group of white people, pushing your agenda.

On a community. You don't know anything about like, this is so revolutionary, there are mirrors and people that have blue cross blue shield and United health cares of the world that could be shared us and say like, this is something that can be replicated, can be modeled. It can be shared. Across the whole across the world, but across the country.

So where are we now? So Cindy, tell me about sisters caring for sisters. Um, since this campus sisters, um, we have really evolved in the past several years. Um, when you were saying what you was just saying, it made me think that one of the other beautiful parts and pieces to this, that, um, I am so thankful.

And I know the other ladies are really thankful for it is we're able to, they helped bridge the gap and the trust within the community. Um, of women and the healthcare providers here at Mac, um, a lot of the women, we, we support our patients of MAHEC or, you know, and so, because we are working so closely with the health care providers and we're working so close with the community, we are able to.

Kind of show the community, every health care provider isn't that bad. And every healthcare provider, we can explain their roles and vice versa. And what happens if you come across a healthcare provider that needs. Some cultural or sensitivity training. Like if you I've been at birds where I didn't like what I saw, what went down neither want to let happen.

Either one of us, ladies are silent. This is giving you a platform change. We're not silent. We're not silent. When we were in the hospital settings, we're not silent. And, um, Here with, on campus at MAHEC. And one of the reasons why is because, because in order for this to be successful, you're going to have to have those hard conversations you're going to have to, you're not going to agree all the time, right?

Respect, respect that a whole different culture than you're dealing with. And the culture itself gotta respect. This is who has been. Um, kind of putting the place to be your healthcare provider. And if you don't like them, you can always request another one. You know, you don't have to be stuck. Right? Yeah.

I heard something that does give you more voice and more power. So Frank Costa Blango executive director of may hack. Shared with me that because of the training from on home grown babies, through the training, through donut international, which is a certifying body that, that the doulas here that are part of this program have been given a MAHEC Oh yeah.

To wear to the hospital. Yes. And I'm thinking that has, that comes with power. I know they're also one of the little programs, um, sisters, campus, sisters, and then a lot of them who was here are open to going to the operating room with our clients and just so happened to be a Syrian. And you know, that is amazing because our support doesn't stop.

It doesn't stop. We were in Lumiere. We're going to reconsider staff.

this is unbelievable because that support should never, just because the birth went from a vaginal delivery to Assyrian delivery, your support system should be able to be trained to be by your side. Yeah. For the whole entire process, the whole process. Okay. Pause, rewind. I'm just so excited. I have so many days.

Tell me about how you engage the community to know about now a couple of years later that we have six doulas on staff, we're here to serve you. How does a woman who becomes pregnant today? Find you get your services and then walk me through your process. You're do lab. You're doing your Julie. What do you do for these women?

For the, the a to Z? Well, right now we have a lot of systems in place to get our, our name out sisters cancer sisters is well known within GE. It's gonna be apartments. And one of the reason, um, is because we also host a mother to mother, um, program for women in the community with kids and we meet once a month and we just talk about everyday life, get things off our chest.

So. It's a group of women. I mean, they're amazing. I mean, they just open up about concerns. Stressors is going on in their lives. Mmm. Ones or older kids. So we didn't stop our picnic table. It just evolved to get more women just to know that we're supporting our women in all avenues. Um, we. We are known here in Manhattan.

Could we have a delicious works with the centering program? So she's with pregnant women all the time. Um, we still do a lot of speaking events. Um, we have our Facebook, um, Kind of a little platform. Um, we have partners, partners is how many women, like what's your capacity like per month? Like how many women can you do?

I mean, cause you have to, I mean, to be a doula, you have to be on call. I mean, you have to not asleep in the night. You know, women go into labor at night, you have to do prenatals. You have to build a relationship. I mean, so what's your capacity. Um, right now we are, we are really busy. Um, This year has turned over into a really, really it's good.

Um, we're having, uh, one of our doulas. She's actually doing three to four birds a month, which is, that's a lot. That's a lot. And she's, do we have another one who's doing about it? Same. Um, mine are more spaced out because I also do the marketing education. So I'm also in the process of getting my certification for it.

Teaching for my LCCE. So that takes a lot of studying, but my books are still full. I'm doing like one to two weeks. Okay. So if I hired you today or I was calling you and saying, you know, um, I want you to be my doula. Like I tell me where to sign. I want to join your program. I may have, I want to be part of this then what happens.

Whereas you want to be a doula. You want to be a client client. Well, first we will, we have a referral system set up now. So our women go through a, um, who wants to do it from, for us. They have to meet certain criteria. Okay. Now, and one of the main criteria is, is being African American woman, a woman of color.

Um, it doesn't mean that we only serve women of color, but that's one of the criteria staff actually. You, you take precedence over anything else? Um, we also work with teen moms, you know, too, so, but once we do that and then we assign, we'll have a doula call you once we go through the criteria is your risk factors things.

That's going on, they usually have a referring doctor for you or for the health care physician. And then, um, our director of operations would give you a call and tell you who you do a late is. And then within a week, a couple of days that they will call you and set up a meeting. So you guys can sit down and talk the CTO of fit for your time.

You might not be a fit for other. We haven't had a one that hasn't. I don't think, you know, um, let me see for each other and if it clicks and she's your doula and we doesn't, we don't set it at like 31 week 32 weeks, we take you from the moment you ready for a doula, it could be 19 weeks. It can be 11, 12 weeks.

When you feel like you need that support, you need that support. You can put a timeline exactly a month on that a week on that. I have had moms that had hired me, like the second that they found out they were pregnant, a lot of moms that did IVF, um, and had long fertility journeys and just knew that they needed that support.

Um, you know, the moment they started, it's beautiful. I believe that the longer. Gestation you have here with your doula, the better the outcome. Now I really do, because you get to spend so much more time with them walking with them, you know, spending that time questions. I'm sure you get so many questions like, Oh, I don't feel so happy today.

What's going on? And you're able to say, Oh, what can we do to make you happy? What would you like to do today? I'm free for a couple hours. Where are you going to go and go for a walk? And then it just that little bit shows that somebody really does in his listening. Did you go to the doctor's visit it's with your clients?

Yes. Okay. And do you call them clients? I'm a common clients. I call them moms the name and I just didn't know. I was like clients, my clients, you know? Um, yeah, I'll call you sweetie, John to make sure he didn't say Asia.

yeah. If more hospitals would treat all women as customers or clients and not patients, you know, I'm like usually when you're pregnant, it's. It's not a national emergency, you know, a little more customer service. I try not to even think of them as clients either, because that sounds so business. Like this is even though this is a business you want to cause some personal gain you in that personal case.

So I tell these moms in my sister's house, it says cancer sisters names. So it's the  system. Well, get the direct referrals from a healthcare provider or from a partner within a community organization around us that are then saying that, but then there's also word of mouth. And so that's where that big clinical shift is.

Is that. They're community based the laws that are also within a health care clinic, um, that are able to build that connection, like send new hockey earlier. And so in this hearing, you talk just brings me back to all those terms again. Yeah. Novel innovative. If you're listening, it should not just be covered.

With Medicaid as well. I think all over the board, every woman, yeah. And deserves a doula. Every woman should have a doula within the childbearing age. It's a must. It's a must. I say that I promote the midwifery eggs. I promote the doulas. I think those two combined were, were, were really good onto something.

Yeah. So yeah, big. Yeah. I actually just had United healthcare cover my services in full for all at and T employees. So I will give a big shout out on this podcast that I at least have one employer that is paying. Or doula services info through commercial insurance. That's a major change that is it's brewing.

It's coming, you know, that's why, that's why we're here. Um, so I want to go back to, are you a hundred percent? Hospital-based what if one of you were, um, Mamas said, I feel the most comfortable birthing my child in my home or do, is there a birthing center here punching center. So tell me about that. What are their options for delivering in this program?

They have the option of the hospital or the birthing center. And, um, and this just say, this is how traumatic some women are because of our healthcare system. We had a mom who actually delivered at home because she was in. I was afraid to transfer the transfer to the hospital. So, you know, and that, that goes to show how traumatic them hospitals can be for our community.

She knew the baby was coming. Yeah. It was like, I'm not going anywhere.

When she did go to the hospital, they was ready to take her baby away. For no other reason other than delivering at home, is anyone listening outside of North Carolina home birth in North Carolina? For some reason didn't have a whole podcast on this is illegal stuff. I'm assuming that. This happens quite often when you haven't let's call it an accidental.

I have also had clients that had an accident in precipitous labor, you know, I've had, uh, but, and had a load of paperwork. So even they call nine one, one, the ambulance comes, the baby's already here and they get to the hospital and they are immediately like, Trying to enjoy and embrace the beauty of late, that just occurred and all that's happening is judgment.

Anger. You could, I couldn't, I can't help that my water broke and I had the urge to push I'm 45 minutes away from the hospital on traffic. Thank you, healthcare community for your judgment, you know, but I'm here now. So anyway, lots of tangent, I can just, you know, Um, go on. So let's talk about actual, like labor and delivery.

So you've done the prenatal care. You built a relationship and then your momma calls and says, I think it's time to go. Do you labor with them at home? If, but they weren't really that totally up to them. We asked them to call us, um, don't text and you can text any other time, except when you think. You were in labor.

Um, if they are uncertain, we say, well, why don't you call your healthcare provider? See what they say, call me back on. Yeah. You know, let me know what's going on. I can come over labor with you, um, walk with you, whatever. Um, usually if it's time to go, then I'll be like meet you at the hospital, you know? And we get there.

I usually get there while they're still in the OB, ER, pause for a minute. You we've spoken that this community many times is low income is transportation to the hospital on issue. Um, as soon as it's, we're not allowed to provide transportation, um, which it would be amazing if we did, but we don't. So usually, um, it we'll have somebody to bring them over.

Okay. Is, may have allowed to provide money for Uber or Lyft or, you know, something, if transportation were an issue. We're not there yet. We're working on it. See where I'm getting at though. It's illegal to birth your baby at home, but yeah, we don't help moms get to the hospital with transportation. Okay.

That's just one nugget. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Get to the hospital one way or the other, but you have to meet them there since you can't provide transportation. Right. And then you've got your badge get boom, may tech doula. Don't a certified homegrown babies trained in my purpose. You wear your purple scraps that has this campuses does on one side mag OB specialists on the other side.

Um, and my doula bag while my little necessity, I have my massage oils. My. Essential oils, spray bottle moms get to wear whatever they want to labor. And so they don't do it. You know, they don't get told that unless we tell them advocate, you have to have someone advocating, you know, our hospital has a certain amount of wireless monitors.

There's some ask for wireless monitors so they can move it in. Now I'm going to offer them to you more intermittent monitoring, you know, rather than continue yes. Monitoring. So it would come in handy, sizing your laboring. Do many of your moms prefer a natural childbirth or an unmedicated epidural birth?

Do they have a strong opinion? Either way? Um, a lot of the moms don't stay to realize that they doula passing traits. In the bag and you kind of coach them through with certain things that you're going to do. You bet you were willing to do to help alleviate some of the pain, the pressure counting through it, actually showing them without telling them and showing them what their body's doing.

They'd be more apt to want to try it. Without any interventions. Um, but we always let it be known. We don't judge you. We don't have, it's just your part with however you want to label. We can work with you. If you get that epidural, we could still leverage that. And right there, what you just said, they're getting a voice in their ear that they're not getting anywhere else that says this is your birth.

This is yours. Yes. You have choices. You have control. What do you want? Yes. So going for the labor and the delivery and getting to have this, and we've already mentioned in your community, we just don't have any black OB GYN. What do you want to share with the medical community across the country? Like, if you are a white OB GYN right now, and you're thinking, I don't want any of anyone to feel, I'm not doing this on purpose.

I don't, I don't want to make the black, the women that I serve feel like they are not heard, which is the biggest issue here with institutional or structural racism is black women voicing and then being shut down and not heard. So what advice can you give? From this community, from your experiences to white OB GYN across the country, straight across the board, I would definitely say they need just, we would really appreciate if they stopped judging a book by its cover.

Because it's deeper than that. Um, I will like for our healthcare community to find that place of empathy, you know, if you can't, for some reason and see past color, then try to imagine that being your mother or your sister or your aunt in that bed, or even your grandmother, because at one point in time, you wouldn't be here without.

Going through this same process and you know, things about the body and you know, how the body works because of surgical for transfer, some of your studied your, your education and to humanity, the humane thing to do. You know what I'm saying? I see more people take care of their animals, better care of their animals and blood women.

That's hurtful. And that's coming from a black woman. That's just real. We're no different. We're no different. We love our children. I don't care what Latin life we've had, how much finances we have, how, how dark our skin color is. It does not matter. So I think they need to just take a step back. Let's take a step back and look, look, it's no difference.

I don't think you were seeing the skin color start looking at us as people as women, it's women and equitable women. We deserve it. We deserve it. Yep. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you guys for saying yes to this conversation and for teaching me. And for sharing your story. And as we kick off the week, this week for black maternal health awareness, you know, I just really appreciate you being here.

Thank you for listening to burn story. My goal is you'll walk away from each episode with a clear picture of how labor and delivery my guts, and that you will feel empowered by the end of your pregnancy to speak up plan and prepare for the birth you want. No matter what that looks like.