7 Meet Rachel Coley-CEO of CanDoKiddo On Her Birth Story, Epidurals, Prodromal Labors, Tandem Nursing, and Grief During Labor

Rachel Coley, a pediatric occupational therapist and the CEO of www.CanDoKiddo.com, shares with Heidi and Birth Story Podcast listeners the evolution of her birthing journey from a Bradley method user to having 3 epidural births in 3 and a half years. She speaks frankly about how the unexpected twists and turns of labor challenged her in ways she had never anticipated. Rachel's favorite baby product is the LovEvery play gym.

Looking for a Virtual Doula to create a custom birthing experience and guide you through your journey to parenthood in the United States? Contact Heidi at www.mydoulaheidi.com

For additional free birth education resources and to purchase Heidi’s book, Birth Story: Pregnancy Guidebook + Journal, visit www.birthstory.com.

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TRANSCRIPTION

What does a contraction feel like? How do I know if I'm in labor and what does the day of labor look like? Wait, is this normal? Hey, I'm Heidi Campbell, a certified birth doula host of this podcast, birth story and owner of my doula, Heidi. I have supported hundreds of women through their labor and deliveries.

And I believe that every one of them and you deserves a microphone and a stage. So here we are listen each week to get answers to these tough questions and more birth story, where we talk about pregnancy labor deliveries, where we tell our stories, share our feelings. And of course chat about our favorite baby products and motherhood.

And because I'm passionate about birth outcomes, you will hear from some of the top experts in labor and delivery, whether you are pregnant, trying desperately to get pregnant, I hope you will stick around and be part of this tribe. Episode seven. Does everybody have a glass of wine? Because I've got Rachel on the podcast today?

She is a friend that I met through my broadly class. And man, she's going to take us to a place for really all three of her births that you have to hear. There's so much to learn from this woman, and I hope you enjoy today's podcast. Hey everybody. I'm with Rachel coli today. She was in my Bradley class when we were pregnant with our first baby rested.

Yeah. And so now Rachel has three babies, but we are going to talk about, um, number one, Rowan's birth, and then maybe sprinkle in a little bit over your other birds. So Rachel. Yeah. Tell everybody like who you are because I was stocking your Instagram today because it's, I am a very normal person who, um, by professional training, I'm a pediatric OT, of course I'm a momma first and a wife first, but, uh, my business has always been pediatric occupational therapy and specifically kind of narrowing down into that baby toddler.

We call it early intervention. Birth to three has always been my heart and my passion. And then. Um, when I started having my own family, I thought I'd stay at home. And then this business, I don't know, this is how it happened for you. It happens for a lot of people this way. Like it just. Happened to me, this business happened to me and it, it was terrible timing and it like, it was a very, if, if someone had presented on paper, like here, you're going to launch an online business right now, when you have an eight, I've been like, no thanks.

But it just happened. It was. So natural. It was such a marriage of my professional passions and what I was living as a mom and a new mom. And so I'm, I run can-do cater.com and it is an educational website aimed for parents to really increase. Their confidence as a parent so that they can have a more playful and enjoyable parenting experience while giving their babies and toddlers the best developmental start.

Um, so I have my own professional agenda to help the kids, but my heart is also in helping my fellow parents to just enjoy it. It is awesome. So I'm going to say right there, like, okay. Four years ago when you were just kind of starting this business. And here we were both pregnant, like for the first time, but like, I literally, like, I'm going to go back through and tell you all the things that I did with my first son max.

So like we literally had this like, Oh, God, I don't even know. It was like a muffin 10 and there were like golf balls or something and I, yeah, and he was like grabbing the golf balls. That was like one of the things that we did, the other thing was like, we had a fan that we had streamers, like, and we like turned the fan on and then I will never forget, um, seeing pictures and you post about the Ikea, um, Activity an activity gym.

Yeah. But you had hung all of these, um, long, like. I don't know, links off of it so that the baby could get it. Cause I was thinking, Oh, I don't even know what to do with this. And then there was another thing. Uh, we were on a road trip or we're getting ready to go on a road trip when max was like six weeks old.

And you had posted about like how to, um, like basically decorate the, uh, car seat to entertain the baby. So all those pregnant mamas. Can do kiddo. Thank you. Thank you. It's it's been fun. And the best part for me is when parents say exactly that, like I was able to play with my newborn. I had no idea you could play with a newborn and suddenly I could play.

And now I understood why the play was important because you told me that this is why developmentally this is important. So yeah, it's really fun. Oh, yeah. Well, I have learned so much from you and, um, and even more now, um, cause my now three year old has sensory processing disorder and had a stroke. So I just am on your page, like every day, looking in the, the toddler section for the toddler tips, um, and feeding tip.

So thank you for all that you do. I'm so excited to hear about your birth journeys with the three babies. So. Let's roll. Let's start with Rowan because I remember sitting in Bradley class and we're all in Bradley class for a reason. Right. Cause we think we're going to have a Bradley birth. Right? I didn't.

I did. So let's talk about it. Might've been the only two in our class too, and that didn't have like a. I Bradley Bert. I mean, I drink orange juice at the end of the birth, but that was about as Bradley as my birth. Got, I think we had the, I know my husband had a beer. He packed a beer for the little mini fridge in the hospital.

Yeah. Um, so yeah, Rowan's birth was interesting because like, at least my audience, I don't know about yours, but I was like the type, a high achieving. Professional woman who went into this thinking that I was going to do, assigned my birth and that I was going to follow the recipe. I was going to do the steps.

I was going to eat the amount of protein they said and do that key goals and, and lay in this position and not sit in this position. Do all do the formula to give me the birth that I wanted. And, um, it seemed to make sense and it seemed to be like, great, that's the way I'm going to start this mothering thing.

And probably this mothering, thing's going to go that way too. Um, that I'm going to just find the answers and. Implement them and everything will be smooth. Bless our hearts. Don't you just want to go back, go back and have a conversation to go back and like hug and go less, you know, let's you, you have no idea.

So our three were born. We did the quote unquote baby bunching. So our three years are similar. Um, our three are less than three and a half years spread between them. And I just remember these conversations before we had kids about how this was going to be so efficient and we were going to just knock out the baby phase and then move on and they'll be close and friends, they'll be good friends, or they'll be close nature.

They'll be close and good friends. And I want to go back and have a drink with that mom and be like, yeah, yeah, slow it down. I mean, yeah. I mean, my, I had a plan to pregnancy at five months postpartum six months. And you were six months. Cause I was like, I know that we were like, The first two in our class also to get pregnant again.

And then maybe how close was she? She's 22 months behind LOE. So 17 and then 20. Yeah, it is a busy household loud. Yeah. So I'm Rowan. So that was kind of my expectations going into birth. I did all the things that I was supposed to do and I. I did my quote unquote research, the beginning of tons of mommy research.

I love that term, mommy research, AKA Googling out of anxiety. Um, and so during my pregnancy, my dad. Um, who had terminal cancer was put in hospice and 11 days before I delivered, um, he passed away. And so, and it was a very complicated relationships. So the grief was really complicated, but not to say it was better or worse or easier or harder, it was just a fairy, like raw, complicated grief.

Um, and so I was having prodromal labor anyway, where I was having legitimate timed. Contractions only at night and then they'd fizzle. And so I was just wearing myself out, not sleeping, not sleeping anxious. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And all the self doubt, like what's wrong with me that I thought I was delivered like in labor last night and I wasn't and Bradley sh you know, I should know better.

So once my dad passed away, the prodromal labor that had been going on for three or four days really cranked up and I was just miserable. I really was. And, um, By the time I got to the birthing day or actually his labor lasted two or three days. But, um, when it really was go time, I just, I felt really good in the beginning.

And I did all the things I was supposed to do. We labored at home as long as possible. And then once I got to the hospital, it just took a turn for me mentally, where. All the spiritual metaphysical, universal stuff that Ima had talked about in her book and all those like drum circle births, which is what I thought I was, you know, as much as you can have that in a hospital, that's what I was aiming for.

It went to the other side of the spectrum for me. So all of that spiritual stuff went to really dark, really painful, really lonely places. And. I just got it. I was in so much pain physically. That part I was prepared for, but I was just getting my soul ripped open. Like I was already in so much pain going into birth mentally that, all the stuff that was happening during birth.

Separate from my body just wrecked me. I was, and I was so physically tired and mentally tired. And so at about 21 hours of hard labor, not even counting the beginning stuff where you can still eat and talk and all that, but 21 hours of hard, hard labor. Not really progressing much. I wasn't having very frequent checks, but when they did check me, it was always like, well, mom, you're still at a four.

Um, and when you showed up at the hospital, do you remember like how many centimeters? I want to say? I was like at a three and I had been laboring at home for 12 hours or something and labor for days. Right, right, right, right. Right. You know, before, while you're talking, I just want to stop right there for a second and just say like, it is.

Triggering for me to even hear you talk, because I'm just so proud of you for sharing your story, because here I am, I'm a doula I'm delivering this podcast and yet I still don't talk about Max's birth. I really, because it's very similar. Yeah. And it's hard because we do. I think that there and I did as a doula because I watched it unfold for 14 years, everything.

Right. I knew it could be. Yeah. Right. And many times was, and I, I wasn't prepared for a different, a different, you know, what it shouldn't be, you know? But I went to that. I just wanted you to hear me that I went to that very dark. Totally. Like not the place I was expecting birth to go. Yeah. My other bird was therapeutic.

So I'll, you know, we'll talk about some other stuff, but I just let's see that out loud. Like sometimes birth is really long and if you have emotional baggage going into it, Girl. It comes with you to that. Yeah, it does. It rips you right open. So, so 21 hours in, at the hospital, you're like four centimeters and you're like, most people are done.

Most people are nursing their baby by now and sleeping. So where are you? So the, the hospital, we specifically birth at a hospital further away from our house because we heard it had a reputation for being very supportive and very natural as natural as you could potentially get in a hospital setting in our area.

So. Um, they knew we were a Bradley couple and we had expressed the wish to sort of be left alone, like do what you have to do to check periodically, but kind of give us some space to do our Bradley thing. And so the nurse came in at about 21 hours just to introduce the new nurse. Cause there was a shift change and the new nurse who at the time, I had no idea, but she was a doula on the side she came in to introduce, and it was like one of those moments of like just my.

Gut was being wrenched and both physically and mentally, and she just swooped into my ear. I'll never forget. She was in my left ear with this one. Like angelic convoys. And didn't even like just, I think she interrupted her introduction event and I was like, hi, I'm Oh, you need help. And she got there and she just walked me through several contractions.

I was at that point screaming, like, give me the epidural I'm done. I'm done. I'm so done. Make it stop. And she's like, you know, talk to me about why this is between contractions. Talk to me about why you wanted a natural birth. Let's talk about that. What's changed for you. What if you stuck this out right now?

What, what would it be for? What would the outcome like what would be the purpose of it? And finally she said having been through several contractions with things, she said, Rachel, this is painful. It's always painful. There's no way around this pain, but there's a difference between pain and suffering. And she said, I need you to tell me, are you in pain?

Are you suffering? And I had literally said, mind, body, and soul suffering. And she said, then do it. Yeah, do it. And so what that gave me and I did, I had the epidural and then he had some, you know, sort of predictable like DeSales and all that kind of drama at the end. And then he came out and he's perfect and wonderful.

And I had a beautiful birthing moment. Like, that's the part that I didn't expect from all the Bradley stuff is things took a turn and the bird, the labor went a different way, but I never forget. They asked if I wanted a mirror. My first couple of pushes with an epidural were not, they were like, Oh, bless your heart.

Let's get you a mirror.  is work in a little too good. You're doing up and down. I'm like, did I do it? They brought in a mirror, which kind of at first I was like, are you sure? I don't know. I don't know if I want a mirror. It was amazing to watch and to, I was feeling some pressure and, you know, I just felt like I really own the end of it.

And even without the pain, the quote, unquote pain. And so what I walked away from that experience that doula slash nurse was Kimery. And what she gave me was in the, or the process, a real processing of medicine, so that I don't look back on that birth as like a failure or anything else. It was like, I had to change my decision making based on new information.

This was not the information presented to me in Bradley, but this is how I was going to feel in my heart and my soul in my body. And so it I'd never felt that like, Oh, I failed or this sucked, or I can't be proud of this birth. I mean, I felt like a warrior in that last push, it came out. It was like, yes.

You know, I really felt so. At hour 21, you were four centimeters and you were like, I'm defeated. And then at somewhere around that is when you got the epidural, right? How long until Rohan hours total. Gosh. Yeah. So it was almost double what you had already gone through your body went through then now it was able to rest.

Once I got that butter while I was able to, and get a little bit of sleep and stuff like that. So my story, your story. There are we're outliers. Right? Right. So you have really rapid labors, less than four hours, precipitous bird, right. That are rare. And then we have these longer than 24 hour. 48 hour, 50 hour plus 60 hour plus birth.

They're also very rare, right? The majority of the people listening are gonna fall somewhere in the middle, right. Somewhere in that 12 to 18 hour, like first birth or whatever, but it is so important to prepare for anything. Yeah. And to like burst your mind, like wide open with. You have no control over what kind of labor you're going to be given, right.

Or what that looks like. And every single baby is different, but like, you know, I wish if I could go back and tell our selves sitting in that Bradley class, like. Hey, my take five days or, Oh, how long was yours with the pro journal? Like days. Oh, node, like two weeks. Two weeks. Yeah. Cause it started right before my dad passed away.

I started a couple of days of pro dermal and then it really ran like those 11, well, the last two of those days I was in labor, but yeah. You know, those mid that week was, and it's real. So it's prodromal, but it's really labor. Oh, softening the cervix. It's painful contractions. There are exhausting contractions and you're nervous and excited and you can't sleep.

And I will say this too. They prepared the prodromal labor elicit a lot of feedback from people in the world. And also from my midwives that this was preparing my body and that I might go quickly or that this was like somehow going to shorten my labor and earn yeah. Or that like, Oh, with all this, I didn't have internal checks.

And so it was like with all this prodromal labor, you know, people, friends of mine will be like, Oh, you're probably already a three or four. And like 21 hours in, I was at a four or whatever, you know, if you have prodromal labor that leads to progress, right. Liked her journal label that leads to six centimeters dilated efficient to me.

Yeah. I was like, that's good. But sometimes yeah. It's just painful contractions, but don't really go much anywhere. And I didn't really talk to my midwife about it too much and I didn't, I didn't have a doula. And so I didn't know why you kind of did like a free doula. Right, right. And unfortunately she moved like within a week of getting pregnant with Eloise.

I was like, Kimberly, can you be my doula? And she was moving, but we did use her partner. Um, but yeah, it was, it was an interesting birth because I feel like I was gifted. This processing during. The middle of it. Yeah. So let me ask you a question. Did you ever go to any like counseling or anything afterwards, or did you have someone that you processed the birth with, like those early hours, those first 21 hours with like where you said you feel like you were just getting like ripped open or is that something that you just kind of, the other birds were therapeutic?

I never talked to anyone in a therapeutic context about it. Now I was open with people about it. After your first, especially when you're in sort of a Bradley group, like there's a lot of questions about your birth. And at the time I also feel like I had friends, a lot of friends who were pregnant and having their first.

And so there was a lot of conversation afterwards, so I was able to verbally just share it and I never hid that part of my story. Yeah. Just that there was so much grief and so much permit drama, labor, and you know, that it was really long and brutal. Yeah. It's so good. I asked that because it's just so important to talk about our birds, whether they're great birds, whether they're hard birds, whether there's something in between, you know, so, but I think just like sharing and being on the podcast, telling the story, you know, it's just so important to yeah.

Yeah. And I think there's also like for me, When I think about my birth, there's so much really rich metaphor in the stories. And I think that we as a society, not you and me, but, um, Really sell it short and make it much more superficial, like all the mommy worst after the judgment about the actual outcome and how the baby came, what orifice the baby came out of and, and how much medication and what type of medication and how many hours you went, natural, whatever, all of that really sells the metaphors short, because you can wind up with what you felt like was a failure at birth.

But for me, like the metaphor of row whirlwinds birth, um, one of the many. Is the relinquishing of control. And you will learn that lesson as a mom, you will learn it, whether it's through an inter infertility journey that it begins, whether it's through your labor and delivery, that it begins, whether it's through postpartum, that it begins, whether it's through toddler parenting, you're going to start.

The relinquishing of control lesson, and you're going to learn it over and over and deeper and deeper as a parent. And so I think we just need to like, stop. Yeah. Stop making birth into something so literal and really embrace the metaphor. No matter what your birth wound up being, you know, like I'm in therapy right now.

I feel like I'm healing from Max's birth and, you know, from just listening to you talk. Yeah, because that really was, I went into his birth. Like you did. We, we had a dream of the Spradley birth and just really kind of giving that up halfway through the birth is a difficult thing to do. Um, after the birth with Rowan, do you feel like the hospital like honored, like, did you do anything like delayed cord clamping or placenta encapsulation or like skin to skin?

Kind of like, what was your like after birth plan? Um, we had a pretty detailed afterbirth plan. Um, the only part of it. Well, there were a couple of hiccups in, at one was that my husband was going to announce the gender. All three of us were surprised genders and my husband was going to notch the gender, but they hold up this like baby has got his penis in my face and I'm like, it's.

And then I was like, sorry, honey, I stole your thunder. Um, the cord, we actually, we think that they delayed the clamping. Um, We don't remember. And my husband did not cut the cord with him and we don't remember why, how we literally just don't have any recollection of that whole process. Um, he did have a little bit of.

Tense tension in the room when he was born, they brought the neonatal team in, he turned out to be 100% fine, but just as a precaution because of some of his heart D cells. And so I think that kind of skewed a little bit would have the birth plan, but yeah, we were able to hold off yeah. Shots and, um, yeah, we were, we got a 24 hour discharge, which was our wish we had like, Taishan come.

I mean, we just were really supported. A hundred percent in that regard. Now I've got some questions that are going to lead to your other birds too, because I remember you tandem nursing. So I I'm very curious about this because when I got pregnant with max, I mean, Jagger, listen to me. I don't even know what, after, when I got pregnant, when I got pregnant with Jagger, Max's milk gone.

I mean, it was God. Yeah. So I'm always fascinated by tandem nursing. So you get pregnant again, 17 months later? No, five, six months later, sorry. Yeah. 17 months apart, six months later. And you are still producing milk. Yeah. And this is another example of one of those things that like you, I think it's really good to research and have your intentions and have your goals, but like there's so much more involved than your cognitive processing of something.

So my body had to cooperate with that decision and it ha and it was sort of like, I wasn't heart set on it. It was just like, Hey, if my body cooperates with this, I was able to get pregnant while nursing my babies less than a year. Like, let's see how far we can run with it, this thing. And then at some point it was like, Oh man, I guess maybe I'm going to tandem nurse.

Like I, that wasn't ever something I dreamed up or hope for. Um, and I did it twice. I've been continuously nursing since June of 2014. You are amazing orange. Woo. I just got a hot flash, right? I'm thinking about it tingling my first two tandem nurse. And then I solo nurse Eloise for a little while and then Eloise and Mave tandem nursed until always weaned.

So now just me the only one riding the milk truck. Oh my goodness. Okay. So maybe. If you don't want to answer this question, I could always cut this out. But do you guys want to have any more children? No. Okay. So you're gonna have to cut that out. Okay. I was like, you've done stick a fork in us. I have no we're so out of capacity, like we just couldn't.

Yeah. Well, three in three years, basically four years is a lot and they're not. Easy kid. I mean, I know no kids are easy, but Rowan and Eloise did not have a good adjustment at 17 months to each other. Rowan had a very hard time having a baby that close in age and continues to, I mean, that's just been a real struggle.

So yeah, we're maxed out our house is loud enough and we're not, we're not super young. Believe it or not. If you know I'm in real life, my husband is, this is mind blowing. Everyone right now. Is, are there pictures of your husband on Kandoo kiddo? Um, a few. Yeah. Okay. Not a ton, but a few. Here's another reason to go, can Duke it out and follow because this will blow your mind when you see her husband.

Totally hot, so hot. Oh, thank you. And I agree. It looks like he couldn't possibly be more than 35 years old. It's not fair. And when I married him, I'm not kidding you. I thought, okay. You are not 53. Let's just tell him I'll be 38 in a few weeks. I feel like our timing. It was like if we had a little more time and we had spaced our kids further and maybe had easier kids, maybe not, um, we maybe would have had, I think our dream was to have four and then reality.

Again, it's another thing where it's like, it's good to have intentions. It's good to talk about these things and have plans. And then it's also good to be like, let's be realistic about where we are and make a new decision. Yeah. You know, and feel really good about that. Yeah. We a hundred percent. We're going to have four and then while I was pregnant with number two 15, I was like, Nope, we're good.

Yeah. Now we're going to take a short break to just share a few things with you and we'll be right back with our guests. I'm so excited to tell you about my first book that I wrote that is launching this summer. It's a 42 week guide to your pregnancy. It's a collection of birth stories. It has a ton of doula advice from all of the questions that my clients have asked me over the last 14 years.

It has hysterical partner tips that you will want to read to your partner. And it has journaling prompts because nobody has time to write a 20 pages in their journal about their pregnancy. So I've taken the Liberty to give you some prompts of things that I think you might want to remember back on after the baby's born.

So again, you can go to birth story.com and preorder a copy today, and it would mean the world to me. Hey guys, if you're enjoying this podcast, then I need your help to spread the word. If you know anyone who is pregnant is trying to become pregnant or just loves a good birth story. If you could send them to iTunes or Stitcher.

Or Spotify or SoundCloud wherever they listen to their podcasts and ask them to subscribe to the birth story podcast. So let's go pack to Eloise number two. So you're able to still be nursing Rowan, which is unbelievable. Did you feel contractions, like, did it make your uterus contract, especially with band.

Okay. Cause I had. I've had a few clients through the years that did this. And, um, they were very concerned about miscarrying early on in the pregnancy if they continued to nurse because the uterine contractions, which is very. False. Right. So was that ever a concern for you? No, I've never really felt them early on.

Um, I have very strong Braxton Hicks all three times. Um, that start around 20, 22 weeks. They got a little earlier each time, but that was really what I felt was really strong Braxton Hicks when I would nurse and sustained that basketball belly would hang around for a minute or two. Um, It wasn't until the very end that they started it, it would feel like that prodromal labor feeling crampy.

Um, but it's funny because. Um, Eloise was 10 days late, which is very strange for a site or not very strange, but again, an outlier in that everyone's like, Oh, it's your second, you'll go early. So my mind is prepared for that. You'll go faster. My mind is prepared for that. Um, yeah, false and false, but she, um, One of the pieces of advice everybody gave me was like, you should stimulate breast start pumping.

I'm like, dude, I have a nursing baby, right. I'm kid on the Lake anymore. Exactly. Um, yeah. So a little bit, a little bit different the second time around with that, but, okay. So tell me about the like day or night that you went into labor with Eloise. Like. What did it look like having a toddler? I know that you have to do something with it in order to leave.

Interestingly, when I was pregnant with Eloise, that was the bigger concern. I think this is pretty common, especially if you have a young toddler when you're pregnant the second time around or third time around my biggest concern was for my toddler's wellbeing. What am I going to do with him? Who's going to care for him.

Well, he be scared. He'd never really been away from us overnight cause he was still nursing. And um, so that was really my more, my concern until I went into labor one day. Once I was in labor, I was like, wait, Rowan, who, um, take me to the hospital, get me out of here. Um, but I actually wound up going into labor on day 10 from a membrane sweep.

I had a scheduled induction, which I did not want to do, but obviously at 10 days post date, they're like pressure, pressure, pressure to have to get it on the books. And I was done. I was so done. Yeah. And when you've had. The experience like your first sometimes. Yeah. It is a very big sense of relief when they're like, no matter what, on Tuesday, you're going to be in labor with controlled contractions.

Yes. And you're going to have a baby and we didn't get there. So the induction was scheduled for a few days later. So you had it though. So you were like, okay. Yeah, definitely. I have this day, right day, baby will be here, but let's just do the membrane sweep to see what right. Which I was totally willing to do.

Cause it, if it felt more natural, I talked to my doula about it and it was like, it felt more natural than the induction. And this felt like a better alternative where you dilated already. Hardly I think maybe like two. Okay. I mean, it's something, I don't think I was very a fate. I think I was like 40% or, you know, it's something has what's happening, but nothing dramatic.

They weren't telling me you're going to go into labor tonight. Like they do some people they're like, ah, let's sweep your men. Um, and that worked pretty efficiently, like within, I don't know, three or four hours, things started moving and, um, our doula came, we met labored without a Dilla for a while, while it was comfortable.

And then at about 2:00 AM, she came over and. Continued to labor at home. We did all the Bradley stuff and this time around our intention and our goal was to try for a natural birth, but we at least entertain the possibility that like, if we get to a place like I did last time, I will not feel like a failure if I waved the white flag.

Yeah. So we're okay with any illness. Suffer again. Right, right, right, right. I was not going to go near that place. Yeah. Good for him. And so, and I don't when, when we say suffer like you and I both know because we've been there, but we're not talking about, like, this hurts really bad. We, we mean like soul suffering, you know, and like it is, it's very different.

It's hard to even. Verbalize. Yeah, I literally was saying things like I'm alone in a desert dying someone's into why is no one saving me? Yeah. And I'll be really transparent. I didn't even think I was going to go here with anyone ever. But when I had to fill out the paperwork at the end of the hospital stay, that says, how do you have suicidal thoughts?

I wrote on the paperwork I did during labor, because I absolutely did. It was. Not, it was not, again, not the pink mean, it was like almost like the fatigue mixed with pain on the leashes, something inside of you that is dark. And I remember thinking, just give me a Syrian or God bring me to heaven because I'm done.

Yeah. I can not be. I felt like I was being tortured. Well, I felt like because of this terrible, I should not be telling bad guys, but if don't learn any and the, the combination of that soul pain plus the duration. So it's like, I can't live in this space anymore. And I've been in this space for hours, you know, there's, there's a difference between dipping your toe in that water and being like treading water in that water for so long.

Yeah. You know? Um, so Eloise's birth very, very, very, very. Very slow, did not. And zero progression, like literally. So your doulas there at the house. Um, at some point we moved to the hospital. Okay. They checked me and it was Sage. I think we've shared a, um, a midwife, but yeah. And she checked me and she left her.

Oh, well, technically you're not the flavor. Cause they had changed the rules. Right. So now it's a six in that. Right. You have to be a six to be considered active labor. I don't know. I relate it to a six. It used to be a four. That they had to admit you or whatever. My clients at home for a really long, well, I was at home for a really long guy, but I was like, Hmm.

But I don't know. And the other thing, because we both further away there was a traffic factor that sent us to the hospital a little before we normally would have, because it was going to be rush hour. And we had to like fight the rush hour traffic. So it was like four o'clock. I think it was like, well, let's go ahead and go and beat the traffic.

So, um, but I mean, I was, I was laboring hard. Um, and then. Uh, just didn't progress at all at all. Like my cervix was going nowhere for hours and hours and hours. And finally they said, um, we can do several things, but one of the things we can do is break your water. I said, let's do that first. And then we'll talk about Pitocin later, but give me a little time with the broken water and see what we can do.

So they broke my memories. Um, and then things amped up even more. Of course I knew they would. My doula knew they would. And then Esther, I don't know, time stands still 75 hours. No, I'm just checking a couple of hours. Um, I was, things were stacking up. Like I was getting no break between contractions. I was having all those weird hiccupy nauseous.

Burpee. Well, and I was like, I'm done, I'm done. I want the epidural. And my doula was like, are you if we check? Yeah. Do you, cause again, I wasn't getting a lot of checks. She was like, if we checked you and you were a nine, would that change things for you? And I was like, yeah, I think I could do it. And she was like, well, let's, let's get you checked and just see.

Cause I really think you're in transition. Okay. I think I was at like a four. Oh, so you totally tricked everyone. Yes. And I hope I will tell you what words came out of my mouth, because again, it was literally like the 21 hour Mark. Yeah. One 22 hours. Okay. So let me just interject right here as a doula, because I have been tricked many times before, too.

And it turns out that when I see this happen, it's the position of the baby. That baby is either face up. Or the head is turned to the side and is not coming down to put pressure on the cervix. Yeah. But yeah. The contractions are the intensity right. Of the end of labor. So it's almost like the position of the baby and the stage of labor are not in sync, right.

With each other. So like I'm tracking right there with your doula. Cause I would been like, yes, let's check. But then right then I would have known, we have to get the baby to turn right and come down. Right. You know, and also. Interestingly, I don't know, from your doula perspective, what this is, but definitely with my first two babies during prodromal labor and during real labor being on my side was horrible.

And I know that they say in Bradley, like go into the pain. I mean, if, if a certain position hurts worse, go there, but it was more than that. It was like completely intolerable. Like it would cause me to have weird reflexes and stuff. Cause it was just so intense. And so, I mean, I could never figure out. Was that better or should I have gone there more?

It actually was the position that also caused the D cells for I'm the opposite. I'm like, we're going to move you out of it, not into it. Right. And they did philosophies. I'm like leaping out of the bed to get out. Yeah. Um, so anyway, so I did wind up getting an epidural with Eloise around the same. Point 21, 22 hours.

Now, from that point on, it was a little bit faster. I think she was about a 28 hour labor total. Okay. Talk to me a little bit right there about the epidural though. Like, so for everybody listening and there, we're trying to teach everybody something. Like if you're you have this beautiful Bradley birth plan, you know, but you're at the 2122 hour Mark, an epidural is a tool to help you have a beautiful birth.

Many times. So let's talk about like, what does it look like to get an epidural? Like what did it feel like? Like, what was that like actually talked about two different visions of it. So with babies number one and two, it felt like. Being terrified because I knew it involved some sort of needle in your back.

You can't see it. But like at that, just that concept, I felt very scary. Um, and I never even saw the doctor either time. Like no one ever came around that side of the bed. Cause they've already got you prepped on the side of the bed, your bends over and pillow. And I always thought it was strange, like yeah.

Or an angel from heaven about to give you an epidural, but you're not going to come around and face to face, introduce yourself or anything. They just like swept into the room. Draped you scrubbed you with some cold stuff. And then with Rowan, it was pretty, it was like having a shot in your back basically.

But with Eloise, um, I F I felt like weird things down my legs, like kind of nerve things. And they said it was okay, but it was very scary. Cause it doesn't feel okay. Your body you're like, Ooh, Ooh, what's that? Oh, very strange sensation. Um, and then it slowly starts to work and they give you a little button and if it's not working as well, you click it again.

And. Yeah, I have, did they ask you the questions? Like, do you have a funny taste in your mouth are ringing in your ears? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I do have very low blood pressure. Sure. Anyway, and did throughout pregnancy. And so I always have a hard time with. Um, blood pressure drops. So I'll get really like kind of groggy headed and like, um, feel kind of nauseous and they'll check my blood pressure and say, yup.

Yup. And then they give me epinephrin and they have to keep doing that pretty much for the rest of my labor, just to keep me at a healthy. Blood pressure. Yeah. Um, and it does slow things down. I mean, it's hard to say in the first two, but with Mave, I will say, I think it slowed things down, which is what we learned in Bradley.

Um, and you're stuck in the bed, so there's not the ability to move around and all of that. But, um, did they have the peanut balls at the hospital by then? Yeah. Okay. So I remember when they did about three or four years ago, they were doing the trial of that peanut balls. So, so did they give you the peanut butter?

I don't remember it with Rohan. Um, I do remember it both in labor before the epidural with Eloise, they put me on my side with a peanut ball and I literally threw it across the room when I had a contraction. Cause it was just so that position was so bad, but, um, I don't remember it after the epidural with Eloise may definitely.

So I had been an epidural all three times. My third epidural was more planned. Like I had an epidural right when I checked in. Yeah. I'm like, Hey, I'm not messing with all that. Just go for that. Well, and I also had sort of the same birth plan in my mind. Like, let's go natural as long as we can and then do the epidural, but I was progressing quickly.

It was my third baby in three years. Yeah. And your body figured it out once my sister. So it's like, wait a second. I think I'm supposed to open here. Yeah. I did wind up with some Pitocin with Eloise my second, because. To pick things just does not, well, it just never progressed without an epidural without the, I mean, with the rupture membranes, like nothing was getting it going.

Yeah. Um, and so they wound up give me some hosting and that's the point at which I also had the epidural kind of consecutive, like I'm going to interject just right here. The fact that you were delivering with Sage in with midwives in this particular hospital, I am certain. That is why you had vaginal births.

Oh, I agree. You have a special, many people listening have this same story and ended up in a Syrian and with Rowan, with the DeSales and all that. Yeah. We could tell at the end that we were. That was the decision on the table. And at any second it was going to go that way. I mean, they were literally saying things like let's watch him through it.

They didn't know what it was. Let's watch baby through one more contraction. Yeah. I mean, we knew we were on the chopping block, the literal shoveling block. Um, and luckily for whatever reason, I think they were like, let's do one more check. And like, I was crowning. I mean, I like, yeah, boom. He's there. Okay.

Just kidding. Let's go ahead and get them out. Um, but yes, I agree. I think that the Bradley preparation being very intentional about having midwives, having a doula the second time around, um, particular hospital chosen because they're supportive of natural, all those things. Despite the fact we wound up having more interventions than my idealistic Bradley student mind wanted.

You still got the vaginal birth, but also knowing when. To use the intervention. Zackly like timing of the epidural is so important. Yeah. Like the further you go, the better your outcome. And so, like, I just hear so much strength pouring out of you that you like Rose. There were all of that. I mean, just rockstar status.

And I'm a really good pusher to guys. I mean, like we're talking well, you're in very good shape. I'm like, you're in very good shape. I want a squat. So it'd become very easy for you, you know? Um, and then, yeah, so my third baby, um, I actually, when I checked in and we went to the hospital quickly, I had a membrane sweep.

I was a few days late. She was like 41. No, she was 40 plus six or something like that. So she was late, but not, or post date. Obviously my cycle is funky. I mean, that's the only answer for why I have a second and third baby that were, um, that late. But, um, she, I had a memory and sweet. Instantly went into labor, like in the parking lot, had my first real legit contraction.

Oh, it's go time. Had to go home. Pick me. This is like third mom. Third time mom had it pick my kids up from preschool. Right? Like I'm not ready for labor. Like it's calling, um, this can't be happening today. Um, and. That was like at 11 or 1130. I had a membrane sweep and at two o'clock I was in the hospital.

In fact, when I called the midwives to say like the office to say, Hey, I'm headed to the hospital. She was, the girl was so confused. Cause I had a non-stress test at 11 and she's like, what? I'm like, yeah, no I'm in labor, like two or three hours later. Cancel the NST. Right. No, I had already had one that morning.

Oh, you would already have it. 11:00 AM you had the NST and the membranes? Yes. Yes. Oh my God. Yeah. So they were all sorts of confused. This is literally three hours later. Yeah. Oh yeah. I'm at the hospital checked in at a six. And let me tell you how to eat, like where you, like, I initially I'd never gotten to a six before, like, I mean, I guess with li with Rohan.

Yeah. I mean, you've delivered your babies vaginally, so yeah, I've been in Chile. Yeah. On my own with Eloise was with Pitocin and with Rowan was probably with 30 hours of labor in an epidural. So I was like, what? I bet a six, I was like high fiving. Um, and. Wound up getting, I was like, I want to labor it as naturally as possible for as long as possible.

And they were like, girl, if you want an epidural, you better get one now, like we gotta get. Okay. And you did not use the dual on number three? No. And we did, that was a very intentional decision for financial reasons because we decided to a lot that money towards postpartum help for our toddlers. Cause we were going to bring a newborn home.

Yeah. Have two toddlers who are hard kids who don't get along. Like it just was. Like w that's where we needed our support with postpartum. If you don't anyone listening, if you don't have a doula financially, It is very important too. I'm just going to say this because it is, there are so many doulas who are available, who do payment plans and who are, um, training and who need births to get experience.

So I just want to kind of interject there. So if someone is willing and really wants to have like where there's a well there's way, so. If there is someone out there listening that does want to do a lot and, but doesn't have $1,500 frankly, to spend on a doula then, um, there are options out there. So doulas and training are a really good, especially if you're on baby three, right?

Like, is this not your first. You know, shindig, you kind of know what's going on, you know, what you need and some support, and you may be able to really help a new doula in training. So I'm just gonna interject. That's really good. I think we were set focused cause we'd had one for our second. And so we only ever considered her.

So it was like, well, we don't want to pay the $1,500 or whatever it was for her, even though she's amazing and worth every penny, but we would rather use that amount of money for a baby to take care of. You didn't even consider alternative. Yeah. So that's why I just entered. Yeah. That's all it is. So important to have that plan for your toddlers.

Like even if you don't have money, find the money to have babysitters so that you have some postpartum silence, which has one baby. He, so another, whether you edit this out or not, I think it's important to at least. Automatically not editing it. And I don't even know what you're going to say. Say it. So the first time around I had my first baby boy, I was so excited and we, at the time I was working or had been working for our church.

So a lot of people interstate and seeing this baby, and yeah, you got married at our church and met at our church. So just a very big community and people wanted to bring us meals and it was so generous and so wonderful. And so. Blip bang overwhelming for me. And you don't know what you're going to need or want postpartum until you're there.

And so it never even occurred to me to have any sort of plan for visitors. Um, and I had a summer baby and I'm not super anxious about germs, so it wasn't that it was literally like I was in so much. Recovery pain and also needed to do so much for my own body and like, figure out this nerds. It's not like when you have a three day old, you're like throwing a nursing cover over you and like doing it.

It's a three ring milk squirting circus. You're like, how do I even put this nursing cover on? And like, how do I hold the baby's head up to my. Yeah. And I'm like, literally spraying, like a fire hydrant out the other side and everything's kind of sword. Yeah. Then you're going, how many holes are on? Like, I don't know if you're like me.

I thought there was like one hole on your nipple that like milk came up. I didn't realize there were like 20. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the things you don't know. So my, um, That was one of the things that my doula really helped with the second time. It was like, let's make sure we have a plan for, for people afterwards.

And then, um, when we were talking about the third time around really wanting that postpartum kind of babysitter support, extra set of hands, we do have, my inlaws are local and we have people that we could have called on. And I felt really vulnerable. Like there was something about it. It was like, I don't want a family member.

That's not, I mean, my mom would be different, but like, I don't want a sister-in-law or a mother-in-law or. It just, I had your privacy thing. Um, and so I was yeah, much more willing the second and third time around to kind of honor that and be like, I don't want visitors. I've learned through experience that I don't want visitors.

And so my, my advice to someone the first time around, since you don't know how your body's going to feel after birth, how your psyche is going to feel after birth is too. Plan err, on the side of fewer people and then call on people if you need or want them. Does that make sense? Um, because it's a whole lot easier to say yes, come than to say no.

You know, in the moment. No, I don't want to see you. And I feel like isn't really what you mean. It's just like, no, I need, I need my sacred space. No. Well, and also I need to be in a sitz bath every like two hours. And that's not, I remember saying if you want to come over and do my dishes great, but like, I don't need anyone else to hold my baby besides.

Yeah. Yeah. And with, with RO Rowan was, we're having less sex when my second was born. My firstborn was having a really hard time when visitors came over because ever was doing an eye over the baby. And yeah, so, well, this is a good, they didn't ask me to do this, but I'm actually going to plug right here.

Anyone local in Charlotte queen city, newborn care. I don't know who you used, but this organization run by med coffee is amazing and it is a network of. Postpartum caregivers that do, um, night support. Pardon support. I mean, just kind of, all of it, just pampering moms, like post-birth and it's a really beautiful organization.

And so I just wanted to put that in there, like for anyone who's kind of maybe feeling or thinking that they're going to feel kind of like how you are feeling like. You don't want your sister in law, but you do want help someone. Yeah. Better. And the support we got the third time around was just babysitters for the toddlers.

Just someone in the evening. Yeah. So dinner, bedtime, just an extra set of hands to help my husband handle that. Or just to give me the space to either be nursing baby or take a minute to cuddle a toddler while the other two were, you know, being cared for. So, um, So, anyway, that was, that was different. The third, the second time was very different and then the third time was really different because we actually enlisted some support there.

Yeah. So if you could look back on like all three birds and experiences, like, do you have a favorite moment or a funny moment like that? You tell stories that I do have that funny moment. Okay. So this is a with Rowan. Going, this is when I went into labor, was it was a Monday night. I will never forget it.

I had been at a women's group. My husband had been somewhere, it was about 9:00 PM. And my husband has a bunch of friends through rock climbing who are younger, single, like just in a different stage of life. Then we were at the moment about to have a baby and I'm driving, it's dark nine. O'clock pulling in my driveway and I see a bunch of cars parked on our street, which isn't super unusual, but I'm like, I literally thought to myself, someone's having a party and I see a guy walking down the sidewalk with a six pack and he turns and walks down my driveway and I'm like, Whoa.

It turns out as a pull in the drive. Um, mind you like 39 weeks pregnant or 38 weeks pregnant. Um, Our friend, one of my husband's friends had had him threw himself a going away party at our house, unbeknownst to us. So I pull in and there's like 30 people on my back patio and hashtag clueless. Oh my gosh.

So yeah. Yes. My dad had just died. Like, it was just kinda like awesome, dude. Yeah, dude. Is this person still in your life? Yes. You love him and it's totally fitting for him to do this, but I'm more sorry. We're laughing about your writing. Okay. Um, So anyways, so I go inside, um, I make my hellos, I try to be friendly and these were not close friends of mine.

These are my husband's friends. I go inside. I'm like, what? Who does this? Oh my God. Some steaming and fuming. Um, go upstairs. I told, I kind of whispered to my husband, like I gotta go to bed. Like, this is insane. And I I'm upstairs and I'm starting labor. And I'm like, I think it's not prodromal, but I'm not quite sure yet.

So I'm just like, What'd I say, I said, shut it down in a text message. I said, shut it down. Yeah. Then I hear this friend, the friend and question, and my husband talking in the kitchen and I look out the window and it looks like most people have left and I hear cabinets slamming. And in my head, the story I'm creating is that they're getting into the liquor cabinet.

And my husband's not a big drinker at all. But with this particular friend, I could see him like, okay, having a few shots of whiskey or I don't know what they would drink. I'm sort of like, great. He's going to be. Like she can't when it's time to drive me to the, there, or to the airport, the hospital. So anyways, yeah, I will Uber.

I will, I will never forget just like the mama rage of like you're violating my space. I think my body was already knowing that it was coming in my mind, but my body was doing all of its hormonal stuff to prepare. And I just went into this rage of like, this is my space. And not only are you violating it, but you're violating in the most, like.

Clueless disrespectful way. Like you threw yourself a party at my house and I'm in labor upstairs. Um, yeah, someday this person may or may not have an idea of that. Um, while I love everything that I've learned from you today, just sharing. Like, I really feel like, honestly, like, I feel like I've been in a little bit of therapy and I also feel like I might've shared too much, but whatever.

And so before we're done. Do you have a favorite baby product or baby products that you used that you want to share about? Yeah. Yeah. Um, so my new, recent favorite, I actually didn't use because it came out like a few months when Mave was like a little bit past the state. We use it a little bit now, but, um, there's a company called I love every, which is all one word lov, E V E R Y.

Um, and they started out making a play jam, which is beautiful and awesome. And I. Had one and loved it with Mave, but they recently came out with play kits and it's a subscription box that comes every once every two months, but they really far and away more than anyone. Yeah. Last enlisted the help of developmental professionals.

And so every two months, if you subscribe, you can eat, you can buy each box individually, but it aligned with the baby's development sends you toys. It sends you a whole manual. Activities you can do and understanding your baby's development. It even includes a little gift for mom every month because you know, what you're doing is hard.

They sent me as just to review their product and try it. They sent me all of the months for the first year. So it's six boxes and each one's stuck packed with all this stuff. And I spread this stuff out, opened it all at once. My kids are going crazy going through it all. And I literally thought to myself, this is all you need.

Literally, this is like the best toys on the market aligned with your baby's development. And literally it's enough that that's, it. That's all you need. You wouldn't have to stress about anything else. Disgusting playground that is cluttered with things they don't, and they're all like beautiful wooden, you know, like all the.

They're visually appealing. So you feel like you're a cool trendy mom, but they're so spot on what's development. Okay. Like I'm going to do a link in the show notes and I cannot wait to go look. Yeah. And I'll send you my affiliate link so that they know that it came from me. And it's also a great gift for like grandparents and people that want buy you all the things, but you don't really know what you need or don't want it more clutter.

It's a great gift to send. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So excited. Right? Let's high-five it. And then we'll pretend like we go back and tell our. Uh, like very young Bradley selves, you know? Release control. Yeah. Hold everything. It's not that you don't hold it. You hold it with a really loose grasp. Yeah. Well sad.

Rachel, like anybody who like loved at the beginning here, but hearing about can-do kiddo and like listening to your story about like, tell us a little bit more about how to get in touch with you and like why brand new parents need some of the stuff that you're offering. Hmm. Good question. So, um, why new parents need some of the stuff that I'm offering is because I am all about early intervention, which really means that you had things off early on and you support them.

You're proactive, poor, positive development. You support what your baby's working on. You support good bonding and connection between mothers and new babies. Um, so that we don't have to fix a lot of problems longer term. And it's also really important because some of the problems that we're seeing, um, On the rise with newborn babies are things that pediatricians are still saying, let's wait and see, let's wait and see, they have a little flat spot on their head.

Let's wait and see. And there are things that instead of waiting and seeing that we could be doing, um, two heads, sorry for the pun to head some of this stuff off. So yeah. Um, I wrote a book that basically gives parents all of my OT knowledge about preventing Flathead syndrome in babies, which is a growing epidemic.

And, um, also for doing their best to avoid a helmet. If there maybe already has flattening, it's not guaranteed. But there are things you can do that are not wait and see, um, and, and just proactive playing with your baby and the things that can help combat all of our fears as a parent. All of that. Am I doing enough?

Is my baby. Okay. What all those new mom anxieties and new data anxieties can really be alleviated with just a little more knowledge and a little more enjoyment. Of the newborn phase. Cause it's hard. That phase is hard. Yeah. Yeah. So where like, so if somebody is listening and they're like, Oh wow. Like either I'm pregnant or like my best friend's pregnant or like, and like you need this book, like you need this book because as a new mom, you're going to be staring at your newborn and being like, what do I do with you all day along?

And there is so much, so like, how do we, how do we get this buck? Um, well, there's a couple ways. So I think these books, I'm sorry, two books, but the, um, the easiest, the lowest hanging fruit is on my homepage. Can-do kiddo.com that CA N D O K I D D O. Um, there are a bunch of free email courses for parents where they can kind of dip their toe in the water of this information.

And you can pick the topics. So maybe you want to learn about playing with your baby. Maybe you want to learn about avoiding the foods. The helmet and avoiding Flathead syndrome. Maybe you want to learn about tummy time and how to start doing tummy time really early, um, which is what's recommended is for a full term, healthy infant from the first day, week of life.

Um, and so kind of be proactive in your parenting through some of these email courses. And then if you want to dig deeper, I'm also on my website. There's a section that. Shows the books that are about baby play the books, the book about Flathead syndrome. Um plagiocephaly and then the three courses that I have, which are about tummy time and, uh, feeding your baby solid starting solids, and then one-year-old development at a big old course, all about following your baby through one-year-old development.

Okay. Like, wait, did I hear you? Right? You said you had free courses. Yes. I have free email courses where I drop into your inbox every day for about a week. And I just give you lessons about. Stuff. I want you to know as a new mom, and then if you want to dig deeper, you can always get some of the paid products, but there's an easier way to start than that.

Okay. This sounds fantastic. And like right now I'm like tag, tag, tag, every single mom that I like, you know, helped doula over the last couple of months, I'm going to be like sending emails tomorrow. So, yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on. This has been great. Thanks Heidi.

Thank you for listening, listening to birth story, Michael is you'll walk away from each episode with a clear picture of how labor and delivery might go, and that you will feel empowered by the end of your pregnancy to speak up plan and prepare for the birth you want. No matter what that looks like.