46 Mothering with Gracie Davis Part 2 of 2

TRANSCRIPTION

Episode 46 is Gracie Davis part two. So if you're just tuning in, make sure to go back to episode 45, to hear Gracie's birth story, all about free birth, meaning she birthed all by herself and carried out her pregnancy all by herself with her partner, such a fascinating story on autonomy and empowerment.

And our microphones just kept rolling. We had so much to talk about. So in this episode, 46, we continue our conversation about parenting, specifically talking about co-sleeping, um, community nursing, elimination, communication.

What does a contraction feel like? How do I know if I'm in labor and what does the day of labor look like? Wait, is this normal? Hey, I'm Heidi. My best friends call me hides. I'm a certified birth doula host of this podcast and author of birth story and interactive pregnancy guidebook. I have supported hundreds of women through their labor and deliveries, and I believe every one of them.

And you deserves a microphone and a stage. So here we are, listen each week to get answers to these tough questions. Birth story, where we talk about pregnancy labor deliveries, where we tell our stories and share our feelings and of course chat about our favorite baby products and motherhood. And because I'm passionate about birth outcomes, you will hear from some of the top experts in labor and delivery, whether you are pregnant, trying desperately to get pregnant.

Or you just love a good birth story. I hope you will stick around and be part of this birth story family. Let's start with elimination communication again. How in the world did you learn or hear about this? Well, I had done I'm a home birth Q and a, or some kind of pregnancy Q and a thing on my YouTube channel.

And somebody wrote in the comments. Well, Hey, since you're a. Finding on all of the natural stuff. Have you heard of ISI? You should look into it. And I had never heard of it before and I looked into it and just enough to know what, you know, what it was, which is basically instant potty training. And I was like, Oh wow, that's crazy.

That's cool. And so I like look up the hashtag on Facebook or Instagram. And I saw posts of, Oh, my baby is five months old. He's only ever approved in a day, three times in his life or just mindblowing stuff like that. Pictures of tons of tons and tons of pictures of babies on toilets and babies on potties and in arms holding them over the sink.

And I would just, I was like, okay, this is actually a thing. And so I bought the book and I plan to wait, what's the button, where's the button. I've bought a go diaper free by Andrea Olsen. Okay. And now I, uh, I'm a certified go diaper, free coach, an EDC coach. Um, so I run support groups here in San Diego anyways.

So I meant to read the book and to do all that with research. And I never got around to it pregnant. So whenever Griffin was born, I just read the newborn sections like a chapter and we just winged it and it worked like he was a couple of days old and we just stopped hearted offering. We started holding him like you called the classic.

You see hold. Yeah. So you hold them underneath their knees so that they're and like a deep squat position and they're facing away from you. So they're a little body is right on your chest and they're headed kind of in between your breasts, their back is on your chest and you just hold them there over some kind of a receptacle.

Like I had this small little potty that I would use cause I was still in bed. And then, or if my husband or sister took him, like they would just do it over the sink because an exclusively breastfed baby there's no. Waste in breast milk. So the poop can just get rid of down this thing. And it's totally like benign, not a big deal.

At least it wasn't for me. And so, yeah, we started just doing it a diaper changes and it was awesome because I was noticing in the beginning, every time I put a clean diaper on him, he would go to the bathroom it right away. And that's, um, that's totally normal because yeah. It took the diaper off. So then he was like, okay.

Like a little animal, like, Oh, the now's the time to go to the bathroom, you know, it's like you take the dog out of the car and all, like, they don't want to soil where they're eating or sleeping. The same for a baby. Babies are so smart. And so. It just worked and I never even liked did all the research. I never did all the naked observation time, which is recommended to do in the beginning.

You know, like where you watch your baby naked to see like how long has it been since he's eaten, napped, woke up, whatever. I never did all that stuff. I just, I offered off intuition and that. Regular intervals or at natural rhythms, just like you or me. Like whenever you wake up, you know, you usually go to the bathroom before you do anything else, or whenever you get out of the car, you know, whenever you come out of a baby carrier or out of a car seat.

So it was just really easy. And the first time he like peed on command, basically for us, it was, I was like, Oh my God. I thought it worked like the first time he pooped. I was like, yeah, Oh, my God, like I just saved the diaper and it was awesome. So it just became like predicting and I just started offering it regularly, like every diaper change and wake ups and.

And because I don't have any other children that I've, you know, period that I've full time diaper. This was just the norm, what was normal for us. And, yeah, and it didn't seem like a lot of extra work because I was not cleaning crew boss, baby, which that seemed like extra work, whenever that would seldomly happen, it was kind of like a big deal.

It's like, Oh, just. Run the back in the back. And so now he's like 13 months, almost 14 months. And she's been, he poops in the toilet on the, his toilet seat reducer every day, twice, yesterday, once this morning before his man, you pick them up and it's really great. And it's just so easy. We're almost ready to stop using diapers.

Yeah. So we have like these little training underwear, these really cute little toddler underwear that have like little you're cutting in the middle and yeah, he's still using the diaper, maybe like 40% of the time because he still does wear a diaper all the time. Now there's like different levels of ECE.

You can do. You can do it part time. You can do it full time. You can do it during the night. We don't do it during the night. Um, we just let them peanuts by bread night, but, uh, yeah, you don't, it's definitely not at all. Nothing saying you can do it a little bit or a lot and whatever works for your family.

And it's really awesome. And it's given us a totally new. Like level of respect he had like, he's just so grateful to not be shitting his pants seriously. You wouldn't get with you. And he's just like so happy, you know, and feel proud of himself as the Gracie Lang. Well, I was going to share with you Gracie.

So I was like, just volunteered in an orphanage in Uganda a couple of years ago. And then in South Africa in 2009 and 2010, and add the orphanages in Africa, like this is an. Everyone is elimination communication, because there were no diapers. It wasn't just an environmental footprint or I can't afford it.

It was like they weren't available and they weren't accessible. And so the kids just kind of walk around. Some of them are naked and some of them have a tee shirt on and no pants. And then when I say walk around and I'm like, most of them are still crawling around, but they just, you know what we would call like nannies or whatever.

But the workers at these orphanages would just. Hold the baby out, like kind of over the Bush or the grass, and then they would go to the bathroom and then bring them back to their chest. I'm like, how is this baby? Like on cue? And yes, there were still accidents and to clean up in different things. I mean, it's not foolproof, but they, you know, in these orphanages they're able to go for a long period of time with elimination communication.

From, from the time they receive the children in very young ages, even right after birth. So, so it's pretty late. It is pretty amazing. So I want to go back to, to like co-sleeping and laying in bed for like a month and having someone else serve you and take care of you. And like, this is for sure how it should be.

Like, one of the things I try to explain to my moms is like, Going back to work at six weeks is like not normal because then it makes you feel like at week two, you should be out walking and at week three, you should be like doing all your dishes and laundry. And you know, when really we should just be laying around and drinking warm soups and broths and healing, you know?

And so to hear that you did this. You know, I'm just so thankful that you had the time you had the money or the resources to be able to do that too, because there's a big gaping wound in our uterus that's and that's open. What is the plural for you to uteruses? You do. Yeah. You dry like dry. I was like, I have no idea.

Now that I'm saying this out loud, I usually don't talk about them in the plural, you know, for all of us, it's like, it's a big gaping wound where the placenta detaches from, and this is why we continue to bleed for, you know, six, eight weeks or whatever. But I always say like, imagine if that that's. Size of the placenta that wound was like on your arm or your leg or your chest.

And someone saw it, they would be like, Oh my God, Ashley down, let me take care of you. Let me dress, you know, let me let's rest until your body heals. And so we just push it. The society just pushes it too hard too soon. So thank you for taking at least the, you know, probably 30 or 40 days. For that. Yeah, I knew it was nice not having any visitors.

I just sprayed blood. I didn't, um, I wasn't wearing any clothes, so I was just grab like a cloth diaper insert or a towel or phase cross or something and put it in between my legs. And it was, yeah, it was really nice. And like, unless it was somebody that I was comfortable being naked around, which was like my husband and my sister.

They weren't welcome. You said your sister did your laundry every day for you? That was. So sweet so that you could be bleed. Yeah. And like, even after the birth, maybe three or four days postpartum, I went through like a boat of contractions. I'm like after birth pains were super intense and I was like doubled over, like on my hands and knees naked, like working through this, like somebody was holding my baby.

And I really couldn't imagine, like if I had visitors, like family members and my home. And like I was feeling this and I had to like, shut it down or, you know, it would have been so uncomfortable and so horrible. And I was just so glad I was, you know, didn't have that. Wasn't out of the house with them.

Has anybody there then? I wasn't comfortable doing that around. So it's interesting as we're talking right now, like my wheels are turning because I usually follow up with my doula clients within a week. And I'm like, maybe I should have a discussion with them about not coming to follow up with them for some time.

Now I know they're quite comfortable with me because I'm their doula and they were. Very naked in front of me for their whole labors and stuff, but, and I'm coming to serve them. I'm not just like coming to like, you know, hang out, uh, why you're there.

Yeah. But it's still got my mind thinking, like, am I a distraction? And I would be better served or am I doing enough of, of caring for the moms? Within that first week, because you don't want to disturb, you know, disturb a mom. But, um, but yeah, so I'm going to think about that a little bit more. And so let's move on to part of that in that resting and laying in bed is co-sleeping.

So yeah. Let's just hear about what your version of co-sleeping looked like as with an infant looks like now, you know, with a 14 month old and being pregnant. So just share with me kind of what your co-sleeping journey is. Well, I knew that I was going to cope with it right from the start. We never bought a crib or anything.

So as soon as Griffin was born, he'd just cuddled up to me. And I started nursing right away. He started nursing right away and. And I knew that on the breastfeeding. And I was like, I knew like a lot about breastfeeding, like probably a lot more than most new moms. Like I knew that there wouldn't be milk in the beginning.

You know, that all he needed was a couple of jobs, the cloth Durham, but that he just to keep putting him at the breast any chance he was awake, just keep putting him out the breast and then, you know, backwards, make my milk come in a few days later. And it did. Um, but, um, yeah, so we just like. We just called love next to each other sideline nurse.

Um, my sister who has a three year old son, Aaron, the first born triplet, she, uh, gave me some FaceTime lessons on that. And yeah, once I figured out how to nurse lying on my side embedded really made it easy. And so whenever he was really small, he mostly had his head on my arm. Because you're always wondering, well, what do I do with that arm?

You know, that's like, right. You know, whenever you're lying on your side. So I would just, I always had a really good pillow to support my back. I would shove it underneath my backfill. I could let my weight fall back on it, roll back onto it. And I would be supported there on my side. And his head would be on my arm and, you know, she would nurse and he would fall asleep like that.

And I just wouldn't move him and he would just stay like that. And then as he got bigger, My arm, like ended up on top of his head on the bed, you know, and, but he was always in that same little nook. Um, me lying on my side, kind of protecting him like around him and yeah. I will only slept with blankets in our bed.

It's her right to me. I was, um, I kept them down a little bit lower and I would wear a long sleeve t-shirt that I would crop really high. So I could like easily have breast access for nursing, but that my shoulders were not getting cold and I kept him naked, um, just like always doing skin to skin. And, and then as he got bigger, I started dressing him at night, like not long ago, actually.

Like once he like, kind of started crawling around and sitting up a lot and was able and yeah, because then he just wasn't under the blankets anymore ever. He was always somewhere else and we made this huge family bed recently. We, um, did start bed frame and put the, the King size mattress on the floor and then got it.

Queen the matching matcher, like the same height. Um, so there's a King and a queen on the floor and they each have like their own set of sheets and they're just. It's a wall to wall bed, and it's awesome. And especially now that he's bigger and she like, you know, sleeps the opposite way in bed and I can get away from him and get a little bit more sleep.

They've always got their feet in my mouth. I'm like, what is happening? And so whenever, anytime he wakes up, um, I just nurse him back to sleep. And the, the time that's just like us going to sleep together with him watched, I went through a time at the beginning of my pregnancy, where it was really hurting a lot to nurse.

And I just, uh, not just, it was a huge thing. I weaned him and I did that for three weeks or a month. And it was a great at the time too. I kept him still beside me and I would just come put him back to sleep or give him a bottle of some other kind of milk goat's milk or something. But then, um, has the nursing aversion left?

I just started nursing him again throughout the night. It was just easier. And now my milk has gone, but we still nurse sometimes actually it hurts a lot and it's pretty uncomfortable, but whatever I'm pretty tough chick. Yeah. Yeah. Just a power lifter. Competitive. No, but dry nursing is w you know, really where.

We we remain the pacifier, even when the milk has, is dried up. And so I'm assuming you're did your milk drive, uh, soon after you became pregnant? Yeah, it happened around week can versa. Like my let downs were getting shorter and shorter. Like. Um, I was able to, I used to be able to feel my, let down or hear him gulping for like a solid minute.

And then they became like really short, like maybe five, 10 seconds. And then maybe three weeks ago, I was just not having any more let downs. And whenever I hand express, there's like just a couple of jobs that comes out. But yeah, so I'm really just using their thing now as a tool to put them to sleep the dry nursing.

And he's really not super interested, um, unless he really needs to be comforted. Apart from Matthew, you know, drinking a lot of water eating snacks. So yeah, I'm mostly just using it for snap times and bedtime right now. Which is great, which I know I love it. I'm like we were born, we were born with builtin pacifiers.

We didn't have to buy him, but you didn't use a positive fire on Griffin. I was like pretty dead set against it. And so I didn't buy any. And I just knew that he had to have my nipple in his mouth, had every waking moment whenever he was an infant. And that's how we were going to have a successful breastfeeding relationship.

There was not going to be timed or, um, you know, schedule like feedings. It was. If he was awake, she would be nursing or I would have it on demand for him. Yeah. Then maybe like every 30 minutes after that. So I was already going into it with that understanding. So it was really not, yeah. Shocking to me that he wanted to nurse all the time or that he would mess all the time.

I mean, it was shocking to extended family members. Like maybe on my husband's side, like at Christmas, Oh, my God. He's just always eating or she's always hungry.

No, he's like suckling and he's soothing and he's calming and he's drinking, you know, here and there. So, well this earlier in our conversation, I said, I would circle back to this, but one of the hardest parts of my job is the culture that we live in. Right. And trying to every client I have doesn't have, you know, these.

Cool radical views of co-sleeping and nursing, you know, around the clock. And so. One of the things as a doula is preparing moms for those first six or 12 weeks, right? Because most everyone is coached on kind of like this timing and you know, your baby has to eat every two to three hours or kind of, you know, even on demand, but one of the, and then how tired they are.

And we just kind of perpetuate this, like I'm so tired and I'm waking up and it's so hard and it is so hard and we are waking up and it stinks. But. I cannot say it over and over again. If you lay in bed and you rest and you nap and you sleep and you co-sleep and you nurse on demand, like you will not be that tired.

You are not going to feel like you're hurting. I'm lying next to him. Ever since the day he was born so that sometimes I sleep, sometimes I'm just screwing around on my phone the whole time. Sometimes I'll watch TV show. Now sometimes they'll sneak away from him, you know, once in a while, but 95% of the time I'm lying in bed next to him.

And that. Okay. Number one, I can nurse him back to sleep anytime he stirs or tries to get up. So I'm not having our nights running three hour nap and okay. I'm like very lucky that I can afford to do this, but I'm here with him anyways. Like I can't put my baby down, but it's like so normal. Like your baby.

Does, you know, they want to deal with their mom and if you try just napping with them, they will sleep and you'll be able to be rested. Absolutely. And I just can't say it enough to anyone out there who's pregnant is if your life affords you, you know, time off of work. And you don't have to go right back to the office or rate back to your job.

Like if you truly do like, just lay down and sleep with the baby or sleep when the baby sleeps and don't think of it, like, you know, we wake up at six o'clock in the morning and we go to bed at eight o'clock at night. Like that's your old life, your new lady, you embrace it as a different schedule. Right?

Everyone else, you know, there'll be a lot less stress, a lot more rest, a lot more comfort. So that, that first six to 12 weeks can, can be easier. It's one strategy that you could deploy to help it be an easier time. And so, you know, part of this episode and talking to Gracie is the platforms education through storytelling.

And so we, we don't educate Kayden just one way. We educate them. All of the ways, because there may be parts of your story that resonate with someone and then parts of a different story that resonate. And then they take all of these pieces and then they put together their own plan, kind of like what you did, right?

You put together your own plan by taking little bits and pieces from your mom and your sister. Yours and your family and your Instagram and your people in your community. And then you made, you know, Gracie Davis's, you know, this is how I do pregnancy. So that's the encouragement for the listeners today is just listen to all the different things and then figure out what's right for you, your body, your baby, and then make those decisions.

Right. And then one thing we just didn't touch on too much was just community nursing. And so let's just talk about it for one second, just to get, let's get the stigma out of there, right? Like, um, breast milk is breast milk in my community. We actually, in Charlotte, North Carolina, there's a lot of breast milk sharing.

And so I think that that's one. Step in the right direction is that we are, um, very open to donating our breast milk and sharing our breast milk with others that who supply might be low, or they may have gotten sick. And so, um, but taking it to the next level of, you know, um, anyone can comfort your baby at their breasts.

If that's something that you're open to. Um, so you've done this, you've noticed other babies you've let others nurse, um, Griffin. Yeah. I mean, it's just shells right to me. And, uh, because you know, he didn't take a pasta flyer if anybody could. Given the bull, you know, even my husband in the first couple of days, but just try and nurse them and cause he would just latch onto anything, you know, she didn't care and it was nice.

And uh, I have a friend who share, who has low supply. And while when I was still producing knock, I would nurse her son so that she could save her donated bread, you know? Yeah. And yeah, anytime I would see him, I would nurse him. Yeah. And then before we go, I always ask moms. What's your favorite baby product?

Wow. We've been using these bamboo diapers since Griffin was a newborn. And like we did, but we still, like I said, we still use diapers. These are awesome. They are super fast biodegrading, bamboo diapers. The brand is called diaper. D Y P R. Can't get diaper on Instagram. And, um, I'll send you a link for your show note delivered or to your door once a month diaper service.

So these are made from bamboo they're super soft. They're like a hundred times sure. To the touch they are. Yeah, no chemicals, no dyes, no glues. Pretty much the crunchiest disposable diaper that, um, that you can find out there. I love them. And yeah, so they have all different sizes. You pay about 65 bucks a month and you get never too many.

It's like a never too many. Never not enough. Yeah, exactly. You know what? I'm trying to say the right amount. And if you run out or if you're running low on bail, send like diapers will show up within like four hours to your door. It's like an SOS service. It's a really great, um, thing I think they use a little time is I don't know, hundreds of years for a normal disposable diaper to break down in a landfill and these diapers, I'm pretty sure it's like between 50 to 70 days, I forget the exact number of days, but it was.

It's pretty amazing how they've designed them and we love them. And there's a wet strip on them, which makes doing UC super, super easy than without the wet strip. So you can see if he's already peed or not without having to like, feel the diaper. And that's nice. So we loved them and now Griffin is in their pull-ups.

They have pull-ups and he's using those at night because during the nights, so yeah, we love them. That's my favorite, uh, All right. Well, I like how that you were like, they're the super crunchiest and I like that they break down so quickly. So if anyone listening is interested in learning more about diaper DUI, P E R we'll link it in the show notes so that you can put an order in Gracie.

Thank you so much for sharing yourself. Story and being on the birth story podcast. And I just am a big fan and I love women that use their voice no matter what their platform is. And I love watching you use your voice. So thank you. Thank you, Heidi. Thank you for having me.

Thank you for listening to birth story, Michael, if you will walk away from each episode with a clear picture of how labor and delivery might go and that you will feel empowered by the end of your pregnancy to speak up plan and prepare for the birth you want, no matter what that looks like.